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Rockets weigh less than dog tags.... WHAT!?

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Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#61 - 2012-06-18 01:25:27 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I always wondered how sufficient armor to cover a Titan in 1600mm of plate fits into a 50 cu m package.


Nanites.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-06-18 02:14:47 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
I always wondered how sufficient armor to cover a Titan in 1600mm of plate fits into a 50 cu m package.


Nanites.


1600mm nanites?

.
stoicfaux
#63 - 2012-06-18 04:58:56 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I always wondered how sufficient armor to cover a Titan in 1600mm of plate fits into a 50 cu m package.

Because it's not a plate of physical armor.

An armor repairer can fix, restore, and/or replace an infinite amount of armor without having to carry any extra mass (i.e. no spare metal, no spare plates, no spare anything.) Ergo, armor is made from energy, and ships have nearly limitless power available. Remote armor repairers make this energy to mass conversion abundantly clear.

This simply means that your 50 m3 armor "plate" is just a module that plugs into your ship's power supply and creates the armor from energy on the fly. Since it's low tech, the module doesn't touch the capacitor buffer (it runs on the standard (background) ship power supply, hence why plates have a powergrid requirement.) The module isn't sophisticated enough to regenerate/fix armor due to a lack of computational power (hence why plates have low CPU requirements,) which is why armor plates require a formal refitting bay which has the necessary CPU and grid to direct the energy to matter creation process.

By comparison, Armor Repair Systems require a lot more powergrid, CPU, and cap than plates in order to replenish damaged armor in flight.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#64 - 2012-06-18 06:20:54 UTC
The energy has to come from somewhere. Even if you were 100% efficient at converting mass to energy and back again, to repair the hull of a Titan by turning energy into mass you would need that much mass to turn into energy in the first place.

So clearly the reason ships have such small cargo bays is that the rest of the ship is idle mass used to replace the chunks that are blown off. This also explains why shield tanking ships are so light ;)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#65 - 2012-06-18 06:58:16 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Imagine what would happen if ammunition took up the space that you'd expect it to. Rather than a 0.05m long round for your 3500mm artillery, what if that round was actually 8m long. No longer would you be able to haul hundreds of thousands of them in a freighter. Each shell is 77m3 or so, limiting your freighter to carrying 10,000 rounds.

A fleet on the move would require a caravan of freighters following it around carrying replacement ammunition. The rate of advance of your battlefront would be restricted by logistics. An inordinate amount of time in a war would be consumed in simply moving stuff around. Having a mining fleet near the battlefront would become a serious consideration. Nullsec alliances might end up in the situation of wanting to recruit industrial corporations specifically for the purpose of keeping the supply chain up and running. Keep that conveyer belt running, carrying ammunition to the front line as fast as the fleet of dreadnoughts and battleships is chewing it up.

There might even be the possibility for specialist freighters or carriers, designed specifically to store large volumes of ammunition in close proximity to the actual combat. Someone needs more ammo? Tender warps to them, loads up their ammo bay, then scuttles off to the safe spot.

Sounds nice to me.

Even better, there would be no need to provide game-mechanic bonuses to industry in null sec, since the bonus of having industry in null sec close to the point of consumption is all the benefit you need.


I read this and was like...yeah thats a game I'd like to play.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#66 - 2012-06-18 07:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Serena Serene
Ciar Meara wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Imagine what would happen if ammunition took up the space that you'd expect it to. Rather than a 0.05m long round for your 3500mm artillery, what if that round was actually 8m long. No longer would you be able to haul hundreds of thousands of them in a freighter. Each shell is 77m3 or so, limiting your freighter to carrying 10,000 rounds.

A fleet on the move would require a caravan of freighters following it around carrying replacement ammunition. The rate of advance of your battlefront would be restricted by logistics. An inordinate amount of time in a war would be consumed in simply moving stuff around. Having a mining fleet near the battlefront would become a serious consideration. Nullsec alliances might end up in the situation of wanting to recruit industrial corporations specifically for the purpose of keeping the supply chain up and running. Keep that conveyer belt running, carrying ammunition to the front line as fast as the fleet of dreadnoughts and battleships is chewing it up.

There might even be the possibility for specialist freighters or carriers, designed specifically to store large volumes of ammunition in close proximity to the actual combat. Someone needs more ammo? Tender warps to them, loads up their ammo bay, then scuttles off to the safe spot.

Sounds nice to me.

Even better, there would be no need to provide game-mechanic bonuses to industry in null sec, since the bonus of having industry in null sec close to the point of consumption is all the benefit you need.


I read this and was like...yeah thats a game I'd like to play.


Everybody would use lasers, I suspect.

On a more serious note: It sounds intriguing, having logistics playing a large role :)
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-06-18 11:22:38 UTC
Serena Serene wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Imagine what would happen if ammunition took up the space that you'd expect it to. Rather than a 0.05m long round for your 3500mm artillery, what if that round was actually 8m long. No longer would you be able to haul hundreds of thousands of them in a freighter. Each shell is 77m3 or so, limiting your freighter to carrying 10,000 rounds.

A fleet on the move would require a caravan of freighters following it around carrying replacement ammunition. The rate of advance of your battlefront would be restricted by logistics. An inordinate amount of time in a war would be consumed in simply moving stuff around. Having a mining fleet near the battlefront would become a serious consideration. Nullsec alliances might end up in the situation of wanting to recruit industrial corporations specifically for the purpose of keeping the supply chain up and running. Keep that conveyer belt running, carrying ammunition to the front line as fast as the fleet of dreadnoughts and battleships is chewing it up.

There might even be the possibility for specialist freighters or carriers, designed specifically to store large volumes of ammunition in close proximity to the actual combat. Someone needs more ammo? Tender warps to them, loads up their ammo bay, then scuttles off to the safe spot.

Sounds nice to me.

Even better, there would be no need to provide game-mechanic bonuses to industry in null sec, since the bonus of having industry in null sec close to the point of consumption is all the benefit you need.


I read this and was like...yeah thats a game I'd like to play.


Everybody would use lasers, I suspect.

On a more serious note: It sounds intriguing, having logistics playing a large role :)


Simple sollution, have ALL laser ammo damage themselves per usage, just like T2 laser ammo.

.
Anna Shoul
#68 - 2012-06-18 11:40:48 UTC
Ammo? That breaks your immersion?

Reinforced Metal Scraps has a volume of 0.01m3 and a mass of 10000kg.

For those not living the metric life, that's seven times as dense as solar core and 88 times heavier than lead. There's a lot of nonsense like that in Eve, none of it has ever been taken seriously, and I expect none of it ever will, what with other more pressing issues.
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#69 - 2012-06-18 11:46:57 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:
Serena Serene wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:

[stuff about high volume amunition and logistic and strategic consequences.


I read this and was like...yeah thats a game I'd like to play.


Everybody would use lasers, I suspect.

On a more serious note: It sounds intriguing, having logistics playing a large role :)


Simple sollution, have ALL laser ammo damage themselves per usage, just like T2 laser ammo.


Even then lasers would provide -a lot- more shots for the space their "amunition" needs than all other weapons.
But of course something could be done to balance that, it wasn't my intention of using that as point against the appeal of what Mara Rinn wrote. More like "here's one more thing one would have to think about".
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#70 - 2012-06-18 11:52:20 UTC
Those dog tags are probably made of Great Danes or something...

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Larg Kellein
Bacon Appreciation Society
#71 - 2012-06-18 13:56:58 UTC
Pretty fond of the half ton sodas myself...
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Quafe_Ultra
Gunny Sack
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-06-18 14:27:44 UTC
can't speak to the large items in small volume, but the small items with large volumes is obvious: they are measured while still in their original package. One of those ones you need a samurai sword to open they're sealed so tight.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#73 - 2012-06-18 14:35:07 UTC
EVE dog tags == Rai Stones.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#74 - 2012-06-18 15:06:43 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
Female corpses weight 200kg go figure...



So... ?
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#75 - 2012-06-18 15:08:04 UTC
Rockets are just meant to explode. Dog tags have to survive the destruction of a whole ship around them, including a breaching reactor close by.

This is why dog tags are made from neutronium which can only be harvested from stellar core fragments.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#76 - 2012-06-18 21:19:06 UTC
Dog tags drop with their respective display case, dramatically increasing mass.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-06-18 21:45:10 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Those dog tags are probably made of Great Danes or something...


*dum dum tssh*
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-06-18 22:44:41 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Those dog tags are probably made of Great Danes or something...


YOU ARE WRONG.

.
Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-06-18 23:30:28 UTC
Because of Falcon

An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE

Lick with your main™
Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-06-18 23:31:30 UTC
Valerie Tessel wrote:
Obviously tags from exploded ships are highly radioactive and must be stored in individual containment units.

^^ This.

An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE

Lick with your main™