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Warfare & Tactics

 
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CCP, please fix the FW bugs before delving into the FW bussiness even more

Author
Desra Mascani
Eleutherian Guard
#1 - 2012-06-17 15:05:47 UTC
So, as many of FW people know, there is a bug that has been haunting us for a long time now. You enter plex with an enemy, you shoot him or he shoots you, or somebody gets shot by the NPC and voila..... The timer gets bugged. Sometimes it shows wrong time and people need to orbit the button even if it shows captured for some extra time. Or it just gets screwed permanently until another downtime. Very frustrating when it concerns the outpost plexes which are supposed to spawn 30 minutes after the closing of the same type of plex.

I don't even bother posting this as a bug because from my talks with another Gallente Militia members, this has been reported too many times already.

My point being..... CCP claims how they started to care about the FW again. It is true - the mechanic has been changed (although many don't agree with the way}. But don't you think it is shameful and ridiculous, that for long months (and I mean at least a year), you failed to repair the bug plaguing the cornerstone of FW mechanics (plexing)? I just hope this gets noticed more than the countless bug reports.

Why am I writing this now? Well, after seeing three perma-bugged plexes in two days (one in Brarel, two in Ladistier) and also dying because of another unrelated bug yesteday, my cup of patience is getting dangerously full. Add the plex farming by stabbed ships and I'm really pissed. Shame on you CCP, you should try harder.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2012-06-17 15:51:32 UTC
The timer bug has proven to be nigh impossible to squash and has been with us since Empyrean Age was launched in one form or another. Personally doubt that it can ever be eliminated as I have come to believe it is caused by the mash-up code that plexes are comprised of (exploration plexes, timer, navy NPCs, standings/allegiance checks etc.) .. there were bound to be some conflicts when so much disparate code is combined.

Ideally we cook up a replacement for the timer and thus sidestep the issue entirely, but then we are talking a complete rewrite of plexes in form and function .. probably not worth getting ones hopes up on that front Smile
Desra Mascani
Eleutherian Guard
#3 - 2012-06-17 16:32:39 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
The timer bug has proven to be nigh impossible to squash and has been with us since Empyrean Age was launched in one form or another. Personally doubt that it can ever be eliminated as I have come to believe it is caused by the mash-up code that plexes are comprised of (exploration plexes, timer, navy NPCs, standings/allegiance checks etc.) .. there were bound to be some conflicts when so much disparate code is combined.

Ideally we cook up a replacement for the timer and thus sidestep the issue entirely, but then we are talking a complete rewrite of plexes in form and function .. probably not worth getting ones hopes up on that front Smile


Huh. Empyrean Age? That's even longer than I play this game. Double shame on you, CCP. The company that can connect two completely different games on two different gaming plaforms having trouble with a stupid timer. Roll
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#4 - 2012-06-18 06:39:30 UTC
We knew what would be the likely outcome of the new changes but nobody asked people like me who actually knows the mechanics on what would happen. They never do or do any of you think Hans knows half of the bugs existing in FW? (unlike me).

Only difference is that our farmer alts made change into plex farmers and instead of caldari getting shafted like I feared, it seems to be gallente who suffer more right now.
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#5 - 2012-06-18 07:53:57 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
We knew what would be the likely outcome of the new changes but nobody asked people like me who actually knows the mechanics on what would happen. They never do or do any of you think Hans knows half of the bugs existing in FW? (unlike me).

Only difference is that our farmer alts made change into plex farmers and instead of caldari getting shafted like I feared, it seems to be gallente who suffer more right now.


Hans may not know as many bugs as you Damar, but that is why he hasn't been banned for exploiting.

If you truly cared then forward the details to him instead of trying to exploit them for your own benefit.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#6 - 2012-06-18 08:07:38 UTC
Bengal Bob wrote:
If you truly cared then forward the details to him instead of trying to exploit them for your own benefit.


He has already proven he is biased and not really interested about the balance and general health of FW. Therefore I will not cooperate with him ever again, since after I reported exactly how the timer bug works, my amarr contacts informed me the number of "disappeared plexes" increased a lot.

So there we go, FW is everyone's war against everyone else except perhaps Caldari have avoided worst of it so far (I dont vision it to last) because the LP farming just keeps on giving.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#7 - 2012-06-18 08:22:48 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:


He has already proven he is biased and not really interested about the balance and general health of FW. Therefore I will not cooperate with him ever again, since after I reported exactly how the timer bug works, my amarr contacts informed me the number of "disappeared plexes" increased a lot.


So, because in your eyes he's biased, you decide not to relay any more information concerning the betterment of faction warfare to him? I fail to see what that accomplishes. Okay, so you sent him the details at some point in time. I'm sure with his roles as CSM he's a busy man, why not just kindly (kindly being the key word) remind him and perhaps ask about what he's doing to address the issue? He may have already brought it up or it may have slipped his mind. We're all human. A little "hey, I was just wondering about the timer bug. Anything new?" and a "I think it really think it needs to be looked at" never hurt, so long as it's in a tasteful tone.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#8 - 2012-06-18 09:30:00 UTC
Shadow Adanza wrote:
So, because in your eyes he's biased, you decide not to relay any more information concerning the betterment of faction warfare to him? I fail to see what that accomplishes.


It avoids him suggesting "fixes" to mechanism in ways which shaft Amarr/Caldari even more than changes already implemented, while elevating Gallente/Minmatar.

If he does not know it, it can't be used to hurt us.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#9 - 2012-06-18 13:32:03 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Only difference is that our farmer alts made change into plex farmers and instead of caldari getting shafted like I feared, it seems to be gallente who suffer more right now.
Dammit, the plan CCP chatgris gave Yttr backfired!
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#10 - 2012-06-18 19:28:43 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:


It avoids him suggesting "fixes" to mechanism in ways which shaft Amarr/Caldari even more than changes already implemented, while elevating Gallente/Minmatar.

If he does not know it, it can't be used to hurt us.

How do the current changes shaft the Amarr/Caldari? If anything they've helped the Caldari. The Amarr... not so much, they're in the same boat plex wise as the Gallente... crappy rats, lots of farmers, yada yada. It's a game, there's no reason to be so paranoid about it.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#11 - 2012-06-18 20:03:24 UTC
So lemme get this straight, instead of using a game mechanic thats available for BOTH sides to use, you complain about the other side using it, then make a post complaining that CCP fix it for you. If it was indeed a bug it would have been fixed by now and we would have heard a post from Hans the self-billed "highsec candidate" about how he has brought it up to CCP. Sounds like you're describing a feature rather than a bug TBH. Sounds like carebear self-entitlement to me.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#12 - 2012-06-18 20:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Pinky Feldman wrote:
If it was indeed a bug it would have been fixed by now


LOL! You obviously are new to FW.

Let me direct you here to a player complaining about being threatened with the ban hammer for exploiting the bug here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98109

There's even a GM post in there. This bug is still out in the wild. CCP isn't very prompt (read: years) when it comes to fixing FW bugs.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#13 - 2012-06-18 20:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Feldman
chatgris wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
If it was indeed a bug it would have been fixed by now


LOL! You obviously are new to FW.

Let me direct you here to a player complaining about being threatened with the ban hammer for exploiting the bug here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98109

There's even a GM post in there. This bug is still out in the wild. CCP isn't very prompt (read: years) when it comes to fixing FW bugs.


LOL! You are obviously new to EVE.

Sounds like a feature working as intended to me.

1) Obviously people are still using the bugs against you enough to be a fairly big bother DESPITE the thread you linked me.
2) Warning != ban
3) If it was indeed as punishable for being exploited as you claim it to be, then it wouldn't still be this rampant problem that people are claiming it is. I came from highsec and have been on the both sides of the petition box quite frequently. The fact is, there are certain things that are easily enforceable and there are things that aren't. For example, before CCP declared all highsec wardec "exploits" legal, I can't count how many highsec POSes that I had put into reinforced walked away scott-free by dropping alliance. Obviously we petitioned this everytime, but i'm pretty sure none of them ever actually got banned and just recieved warnings. I know for a fact that any forum threads about the issue and confirming that its an exploit didn't reduce any of this from happening. In fact, the more open it got that you can do it in the first place, the more rampant it became, until CCP just declared everything legal.

If history repeats itself we'll see all FW exploits declared as being legal in a few months and might see a patch partially fixing many of the problems next summer.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#14 - 2012-06-18 21:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Pinky Feldman wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
If it was indeed a bug it would have been fixed by now


LOL! You obviously are new to FW.

Let me direct you here to a player complaining about being threatened with the ban hammer for exploiting the bug here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98109

There's even a GM post in there. This bug is still out in the wild. CCP isn't very prompt (read: years) when it comes to fixing FW bugs.


LOL! You are obviously new to EVE.

Sounds like a feature working as intended to me.


Well, if you suggest we're self-entitled carebears for not going against a GM's orders on the forums well... I guess that's what we are. I guess the real eve players take the risks with their subscriptions, and try to exploit every bug in the game...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1159172#post1159172
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#15 - 2012-06-18 21:29:36 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
If it was indeed a bug it would have been fixed by now


LOL! You obviously are new to FW.

Let me direct you here to a player complaining about being threatened with the ban hammer for exploiting the bug here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98109

There's even a GM post in there. This bug is still out in the wild. CCP isn't very prompt (read: years) when it comes to fixing FW bugs.


LOL! You are obviously new to EVE.

Sounds like a feature working as intended to me.


Well, if you suggest we're self-entitled carebears for not going against a GM's orders on the forums well... I guess that's what we are. I guess the real eve players take the risks with their subscriptions, and try to exploit every bug in the game...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1159172#post1159172


I'm talking about the attitude of complaining that people are making your gameplay unplayable by pointing to other threads saying that its illegal, despite the fact that its apparently rampant enough to cause you to post on the eve-o forums about and seem intent on waiting for CCP to fix your problems for you, when you for a fact know and have stated that CCP is quite slow about fixing FW bugs.

I'm just pointing out that if the true risk of getting banned was that high, then plex bugging as a problem shouldn't be a real problem.
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-06-19 01:01:33 UTC
Wait a sec, are we calling this a bug or an exploit?

Even more strange, did someone just call chatgris a noob?

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-06-19 01:17:28 UTC
Desra Mascani wrote:
my cup of patience is getting dangerously full.


I think you got your analogy around the wrong way.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2012-06-19 04:04:41 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
.... If it was indeed as punishable for being exploited as you claim it to be, then it wouldn't still be this rampant problem that people are claiming it is.

Who do you ban when bug activates due to legitimate gameplay (pew on timer)? Who's to say that the guy using an alt to trigger it by shooting himself on timer is not merely pew'ing some other dude .. it is FW, CCP are not likely to devote more than a few seconds per petition as it is FW not null threadnaught/Jita statue molestation .. FW monkeys are too adult for that kind of action Big smile?
CCP's eternal problem is one of chain of evidence. They managed to morph a years old bug into something that is triggered by completely normal behaviour and are thus unable to do anything about abuse of said bug.
Pinky Feldman wrote:
If history repeats itself we'll see all FW exploits declared as being legal in a few months and might see a patch partially fixing many of the problems next summer.

Not sure what history you are referring to, certainly is not FW history. The sequence has been: bug -> exploit -> failed squash -> mutated bug -> exploit -> failed squash .. for the timer bug this has been going on since day one, to the point where we are now (been through autorun timer, cloaking captures etc. over the years).
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#19 - 2012-06-19 11:41:06 UTC
I say just do away with plexes and make it all mission based. You go to your journal and there is a list of FW missions that are currently available. Both sides get the same mission for the same deadspace, but different objectives. I get this idea from WarHammer online. While that game was a huge disappointment, the community realm vs realm missions were awesome.

It would lead to a lot more organization and it would focus on PvP, while at the same time you can use the same plex tier system but just with mission level. Level one would be relative to a minor and level four a major unrestricted.

I mentioned this idea many moons ago but I would like to just bring it up again as I think it would be the best thing for FW.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac