EVE General Discussion

Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF.

Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then?

....... So they are relevant and do actually matter then?

(though technically you can still shoot people in HS without one of course)

So no geniuine war effort or political reasoning then other than "policing" your leavers? Its purely for personal satisfaction at the expense of others?

We currently have 47 corps and alliances dogpiled behind The Honda Accord in empire wars. Despite this vast force of ''elite" highsec PvPers arrayed against us, my in-alliance scamming alt has been able to move freely around Empire space without any trouble. I have also left him AFK at gates and he has not been harmed. A simple insta-undock bookmark from Jita 4-4 and other trade hubs ensures that I can dock there without fear of molestation.

I remember a few months ago we were convoying about 20 maelstroms through highsec between deployment areas. Someone in a hurricane decided to run ahead of the main convoy and they ended up getting tackled by a couple of wartargets. the main fleet was two jumps behind and as soon as they spotted us the WTs disengaged the hurricane while he was still in structure and warped off, leaving their drones behind. It was still a good few minutes before we reached the gate in question... it was so laughably pathetic.

Basically what I'm saying is that the only things wardecs do is turn empire into a far more relaxing and easier version of nullsec. Nullsec, without bombs, without cynos, without carriers or supercaps, without dictors or anchorable warp bubbles, and without any organised or competent enemies to fight us.

I can't see any form of empire wardec that would have any kind of effect on a nullsec entity, because the basic restrictions of Empire create an environment that is still far less hostile than any nullsec region, and if we need to get around any difficulties caused by a wardec for logistical purposes we can always drop corp.

This isn't hard to understand, stop being obtuse. Kick can also be removing a rival alliance/coalition from their space, not just those removed from our own alliance/coalition.

Now when you use a tool for a specific purpose--especially a simple tool--does that mean you care deeply about it? When you use a fork/spoon do you care what material it is made of or how it was made? Do you care if someone else wanted a spork instead? Perhaps, instead you will not give it a second thought because it is a simple tool to perform a task. War decs are Eve's simple tool for blowing people up in hisec without the normal penalties associated with doing so.

It doesn't take a lot of research or time to realize we do plenty of blowing people up with war decs. Burn Jita or Hulkageddon ring a bell? Regardless, since most of our activites are in null sec war dec changes don't really affect us. Since they aren't a huge part of our day to day, we have no changes to champion with war decs. They are a tool that we will use when convenient for us to blow up people.

^This^ (except the reason for what Goons do on the forums isn't because they are attention *****'s.)

For purposes of 'full disclosure' I will admit to being a member of the Something Awful forums. I am not now and never have been a 'Goon' and, having played EVE before my joining the SA forums I'm unlikely ever (be allowed to) join the Goons.

I guess that a lot of EVE players don't understand where the Goons come from, literally rather than figuratively.

The Goons are a different kind of group of players. For Most groups of EVE players their only bond, their only connection to one another, is through this game. Goons are not just connected to one another through their interactions in this game. And the EVE forums are just another level of game play, hence what might appear to be domination of the forums.

The Goons understand the power of the forums because 'forums' is where they come from. For those that don't know, thats the 'Something Awful' forums (or SA). Thats why they sometimes refer to other EVE players as 'pubbies'; ie 'members of the public', not members of the SA forums.

This is why The Goons hold so much power in EVE; because they are held together by more than just this game. For example, I imagine that if CCP messed things up badly enough for them they could actually coordinate a mass unsubscription. I think that anyone working at CCP who caused several thousand players to suddenly, en-masse, unsubscribe would be looking for a new job fairly soon.

Then there are the coordinated actions in game. Its a huge power they wield in an MMO. It has to be respected and understood for what it is. And it really shows up the lack of coordination by other player groups; players who are only held together by this game, for whom the only reason they associate with one another is participation in an MMO.

Coordination is power.

In brief, 'The Goons' exist at a 'meta level' outside the MMO. They are like some kind of higher-order entity and as such they have an 'evolutionary' advantage.

So much so that we are the reason CCP never finished up with the Jove stuff. We are just so powerful and mysterious that they didn't have to bother making npcs to fill that role.

Next CSM, we are pushing for a goon faction ship. It will jam like a blackbird and use rifters like drones.

Hey, we're working on it! Death Squads don't just come into existence overnight, you know.

I'm gay.

The allies mechanism is broken, look at it like this, goons could easily wardec done high sec corp and the entire cfc could pile in on that. In fact goons could wardec allot of people and get there coalition with 10's of thousands of members to become allies and completely destroy and high sec entity they wished. It works both ways.