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C4 wh's
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Helen Nearning
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-06-13 15:25:48 UTC
It always makes me sad when I find a C4. I've read that the isk in the C4's is nearly the same per hour as the C3's and that by the time you can run C4's you are ready for C5 sites anyhow.

Every other wh has a place... C4's not so much. I'm sure there are some c4 fanbois out there...

So, would adding another w-space static to C4's to make them more interesting? Or do they fill some niche that I have missed?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2012-06-13 15:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
That they don't have regular k-space links* and generally aren't connected to other w-space systems quite as frequently as other w-space classes (most people wouldn't choose to live in a system with a C4 static**) makes them a bit safer for carebearing.

Done right the ISK ratio is better than C3s but as you said if you have that kinda setup your almost ready for C5s where the potential is much greater.


* There is actually one in the database but I'm not sure if its actually live ingame - the chance of one spawning is less than 1 in every 100 days so I'm not sure if anyone can say if its live for definite or not that doesn't actually have access to the code unless they'd live in one for 2-3 years.

** For other classes it makes logistics (getting to and from k-space) harder and C5/6 dwellers who are PVP orientated would prefer capital capable links for PVP. Theres a few PVP orientated corps holding C2s with dual statics one of which is a C4 but even most C2 dwellers with a C4 static are carebears.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-06-13 16:02:02 UTC
Helen Nearning wrote:
It always makes me sad when I find a C4. I've read that the isk in the C4's is nearly the same per hour as the C3's and that by the time you can run C4's you are ready for C5 sites anyhow.

Every other wh has a place... C4's not so much. I'm sure there are some c4 fanbois out there...

So, would adding another w-space static to C4's to make them more interesting? Or do they fill some niche that I have missed?



Depending on your needs/ wants I don't see this as bad. For me personally, I'd love to have a C4 static C3. The C4 will be better isk than say a C2 with static C3. It's quieter. Only one static to deal with. And when roaming you have the same static C3 to play in.

The only thing you lose over say a C2 is the easy access to k-space, which is overrated IMO.
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#4 - 2012-06-13 17:13:29 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Helen Nearning wrote:
It always makes me sad when I find a C4. I've read that the isk in the C4's is nearly the same per hour as the C3's and that by the time you can run C4's you are ready for C5 sites anyhow.

Every other wh has a place... C4's not so much. I'm sure there are some c4 fanbois out there...

So, would adding another w-space static to C4's to make them more interesting? Or do they fill some niche that I have missed?



Depending on your needs/ wants I don't see this as bad. For me personally, I'd love to have a C4 static C3. The C4 will be better isk than say a C2 with static C3. It's quieter. Only one static to deal with. And when roaming you have the same static C3 to play in.

The only thing you lose over say a C2 is the easy access to k-space, which is overrated IMO.



As a C4 dweller I can quite happily say the guy above got it spot on. My corp have lived quite happily in a c4 for quite some time now. We don't want to make the move to a C5, as the higher end wormholes have become so populated that the pvp is less about small gang tactics and more about the blob - which is what we moved to w-space to avoid. This isk is good in the c4 but with us it's not about the isk but the fun, the isk is just the icing on the already quite tasty cake. Big smile
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#5 - 2012-06-13 22:26:24 UTC
Disagree about C5/6 being blobby - day to day typical fleet you will run into is something along the lines of:

1 bhaalgorn
1 kronos/vindi (more commonly to see lokis or even vigilants used for this tho)
5-6x dps T3s typically prots or legions
2-3x ewar/tackle/neut T3s or recons typically lokis, rapiers, etc.
2-6x guardian or 1 carrier

Sometimes a dread on standby - somewhere between 7 and 20 ships - very rare to see much more than that and its the kind of fleet I'd expect to see in capital class WH PVP. Tho 100+ man T3 gangs, etc. do happen they are more the exception than rule.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#6 - 2012-06-13 23:18:44 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Disagree about C5/6 being blobby - day to day typical fleet you will run into is something along the lines of:

1 bhaalgorn
1 kronos/vindi (more commonly to see lokis or even vigilants used for this tho)
5-6x dps T3s typically prots or legions
2-3x ewar/tackle/neut T3s or recons typically lokis, rapiers, etc.
2-6x guardian or 1 carrier

Sometimes a dread on standby - somewhere between 7 and 20 ships - very rare to see much more than that and its the kind of fleet I'd expect to see in capital class WH PVP. Tho 100+ man T3 gangs, etc. do happen they are more the exception than rule.


I only have 2 drakes. That's so not fair! Sad

No trolling please
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-13 23:29:26 UTC
You can dual box C4s very efficiently.
IMO theyre good for smaller corps that have decently skilled pilots but lack capital pilots.

Didn't you get the memo Bane? anything more than 2 drakes is called a blob in WHs these days so youre doing it right ;)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#8 - 2012-06-13 23:56:22 UTC
I need to get with the times it seems!

No trolling please
Kelhund
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-06-14 12:47:27 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
You can dual box C4s very efficiently.
IMO theyre good for smaller corps that have decently skilled pilots but lack capital pilots.

Didn't you get the memo Bane? anything more than 2 drakes is called a blob in WHs these days so youre doing it right ;)



This, but also I would add the caveat if you are a corp that finds it difficult to organize enough people to run a C5 site, you will have the flexibility to run C4s either as a group or in pairs. The isk/hour isn't quite there, true, but if you are smart about it you can still do things that will make you the isk you need to stay fluid such as polymer production, sleeper sites, etc. Would highly recommend at least 1 cloaky blockade runner though hehe
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-06-15 17:25:16 UTC
Rroff wrote:
** For other classes it makes logistics (getting to and from k-space) harder and C5/6 dwellers who are PVP orientated would prefer capital capable links for PVP. Theres a few PVP orientated corps holding C2s with dual statics one of which is a C4 but even most C2 dwellers with a C4 static are carebears.

I can let it go once, but not twice. The word you're looking for is "oriented", not "orientated". 'Orientate' is not a word.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#11 - 2012-06-15 18:11:14 UTC
Swidgen wrote:
Rroff wrote:
** For other classes it makes logistics (getting to and from k-space) harder and C5/6 dwellers who are PVP orientated would prefer capital capable links for PVP. Theres a few PVP orientated corps holding C2s with dual statics one of which is a C4 but even most C2 dwellers with a C4 static are carebears.

I can let it go once, but not twice. The word you're looking for is "oriented", not "orientated". 'Orientate' is not a word.


Its actually the "British English" form of the word Oriented and while its useage is now considered outdated it was how I was taught at school (suprisingly enough I'm British).
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-15 18:17:53 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
You can dual box C4s very efficiently.
IMO theyre good for smaller corps that have decently skilled pilots but lack capital pilots.

Didn't you get the memo Bane? anything more than 2 drakes is called a blob in WHs these days so youre doing it right ;)



This right here is why we are still using a WH with a C4 static. A few solid pilots but never over 5-6 and limited access to carriers/dreads. The cash ends up being about the same as a C3 but we can do it as a group. Occasionally though we get a magnetar with like 15 sites up and the isk potential is much nicer :-)

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Logan230
Society of the Scruff
#13 - 2012-06-16 09:57:19 UTC
So, I'm looking for the dps needed to tank c4 sites. My corp use to use spider-tanking myrms (read: boring) for the sake of lower skilled pilots in a C3, but I'm looking for fleet comps for 2-3 highly skilled pilots, and was curious if anybody had an idea of the amount of damage I should look for? I have several fits being worked on, but not sure if they are enough.

I am looking at Paladins as the ships we use, because simply put, I think they are sexy and I want to.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#14 - 2012-06-16 10:09:33 UTC
Logan230 wrote:
So, I'm looking for the dps needed to tank c4 sites. My corp use to use spider-tanking myrms (read: boring) for the sake of lower skilled pilots in a C3, but I'm looking for fleet comps for 2-3 highly skilled pilots, and was curious if anybody had an idea of the amount of damage I should look for? I have several fits being worked on, but not sure if they are enough.

I am looking at Paladins as the ships we use, because simply put, I think they are sexy and I want to.

Neuting is a worse problem than tank probably so one or two RR:s and decent resists should be enough. It''s the cap transfers you need to be careful with.

Also, Paladins are probably the most gankable ship in all of eve. One falcon on grid and you are dead.

Thus, I recommend those Paladins. I have many falcon flying friends. :)
Logan230
Society of the Scruff
#15 - 2012-06-16 10:16:18 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Logan230 wrote:
*snip*

Neuting is a worse problem than tank probably so one or two RR:s and decent resists should be enough. It''s the cap transfers you need to be careful with.

Also, Paladins are probably the most gankable ship in all of eve. One falcon on grid and you are dead.

Thus, I recommend those Paladins. I have many falcon flying friends. :)


And I appreciate your candidness, and I trust in our abilities to not get caught.

I am intrigued about your statement about gankablilty, refering to the infamous Marauder low sensor strength, yes? Because I would agree with that, I use to fly falcons during my days in 0.0. Now I'm too lazy for the politics and CTAs! Lol
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#16 - 2012-06-16 17:54:18 UTC
Logan230 wrote:
So, I'm looking for the dps needed to tank c4 sites. My corp use to use spider-tanking myrms (read: boring) for the sake of lower skilled pilots in a C3, but I'm looking for fleet comps for 2-3 highly skilled pilots, and was curious if anybody had an idea of the amount of damage I should look for? I have several fits being worked on, but not sure if they are enough.

I am looking at Paladins as the ships we use, because simply put, I think they are sexy and I want to.


See my post here for rough damage/neuting info:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1463810#post1463810

RR Tengus are still the popular choice for C4s but there are other setups that can do it quite comfortably.
Talonaer
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-06-17 09:20:34 UTC
c2 static C4 and static HS best hole for non cap WH warfare.
Gajana
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-06-17 11:42:29 UTC
Talonaer wrote:
c2 static C4 and static HS best hole for non cap WH warfare.


Last 2 times I ambushed c2/c4 guys rolling holes they warped in cap support ;)
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-06-17 12:04:50 UTC
Talonaer wrote:
c2 static C4 and static HS best hole for non cap WH warfare.


doubt hs/c3 is worse tbh. or c2/hs if you want to fight
Helen Nearning
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-06-17 18:23:49 UTC
Well, certainly they are great for tiny (2-4 tengus) corps/alt armies for bearing... but what I was getting at is that is: Could they be tweaked to make them interesting for a broader range of corps/players? As to C5's being full... that is just silly. I'd say maybe 50-60% of C5's are utilized?

As a broader question there are certain wspace systems as a whole that just don't makes sense for corporations to be in (not that you won't find the occasional corp in one). As a result, these systems types are often devoid of players. What tweaks could be made to make things better?

Eg. What is the point of a C6 or C5 w/C1,C2 statics? They just seem contrary to what wh's are about... C6's offer good anom regen, so you will find corps in them just to run the sites... And before you say well, if somebody is on at an odd tz they could run the sites in the C1... well if you can run sites in a C6... I'm guessing you are in a BC = which means you can runs sites in a C3?

anyhow back to C4's... they just seem empty (not occupied)... yes, I know that certain bearish activities can be had in them... but could they be made better for the broader population while still maintaining the spot between C5's and C3's?

flame away.Lol
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