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Crime & Punishment

 
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Unfair Moltden Heath LSeC Wardecs

First post First post
Author
Les Grenouilles
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-06-17 00:27:56 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:

Also, if any more of the locals fancy 'allying' with us in the wars so they can shoot other locals without gate guns getting involved, feel free. I don't mind either way.


welp~

Most of the guys dec'ing you are already flashy red anyways, so I doubt anyone is going to take aggro anyway if they aggro anyone in RANSM; except for FALKAN ALT FLYER LAKTOS since he's like, 5.0 or something.

Kelduum Revaan wrote:
#freemoldenheath


I also like how you use this line. From what I've seen, the denizens of Molden Heath were once a free people. Multiple times, people have moved down to crush their spirits: such as dark-rising, Solar (chikun) Wing, and some RP fags that have horns as their alliance logo. The peoples of R1FTA, RANSM, and ROLO have stood the test of time, while encouraging this "freedom" you speak of by doing whatever they want.

So sir, are you really trying to "free" Molden Heath; or are you just trying to make it into a playground for all the toddlers in your spaceship guild?
Male Duckface
Greater Order Of Destruction
#22 - 2012-06-17 00:38:49 UTC
Ending wardecs against the UNI isn't going to bring the small gang playstyle back as Kelduum implies. You'll still have a kill starved group living in your space waiting to blob 30 pilots onto anything that's flashy. Those of you that have access to hisec need to hit them where it hurts, the carebears. Plenty of Unistas don't bother reading the WSOP and will autopilot an Orca thru hisec, AFK mine in a belt, or run missions solo in something shiny. It's certainly more effort to find and kill these pilots, but fighting an ECM heavy blob with a small gang is playing right into their hands.

In another few days E-UNI won't be able to have unlimited allies for every war without shelling out some ISK so I'm hoping more people will consider declaring war. I for one will be contacting the rest of my corp to check if anyone else is interested in picking off the weak and the slow cattle that stray from the herd.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
#23 - 2012-06-17 00:59:05 UTC
Male Duckface wrote:
Ending wardecs against the UNI isn't going to bring the small gang playstyle back as Kelduum implies. .


Don't worry the cost of the wardec is not a problem.

We are not doing this for any reason other than to level the playing field as it were, most of the MH denizens are -10 so the war de c is purely to remove our GCC.

The blob is always going to be a problem but that is not our game......

We fight for fun................

Why do you fight Keldumb?

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....

Arianne Stone
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#24 - 2012-06-17 01:06:20 UTC
It's a big stretch to say that the uni LSC is all about small gang. Before the decs there was regularly 20-30 pilots in Heild local. All of whom would want in on a killmail and many of whom were in far larger ships then most r1fta's fly regularly. It's not really teaching small gang stuff if you constantly blob the **** out of people.
If you used more small gang tactics then you'd gain far more respect from other players. And noobs would actually learn stuff.
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-06-17 01:09:06 UTC
Pathetic

Yes I just dun took der jerb Lady Spank.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#26 - 2012-06-17 01:52:09 UTC
Vincent R'lyeh wrote:
If you are against EVERYTHING that Keldumb just said and want a Molden Heath that is a place for solo & small gang warfare then I suggest you take a step backwards and realise the evil that E-UNI bring to this world.

Small gang pvp & solo pvp is not a place for massive blobs of 40+ people with 7 or 8 BB's griffins & guardians.

Small gang pvp is not even over 10 people although of course there is no strict definition.

Low-sec pirates are not the scum of the earth we are oddly a community especially in the Molden Heath region

We are people who like to pvp.............

Of course we will gank and destroy everything we can get our grip on, drop gangs on bait mallers in belts (obvious bait is obvious)

Sometimes gang up and destroy dumb carriers who we find ratting (OMFG TACKLE ON CARRIER SRSLY YOU *******)

But the point is we play this game for fun & fights.

We don't play to win we play to have a damn good time!

If you wonder why these dirty pirate scum are banding together against E-UNI its simply because of this:

You are ruining our rush dude.......

We play this game for fun!

Why do YOU play it Keldumb?

[MILF]


^^That.^^

[/thread]

(Signed) Your Friendly Neighbourhood Sometimes Molden Heath Explo-bear.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-06-17 02:07:29 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
The OP seems rather confused, and if he was in E-UNI, then he would at least be able to get his facts straight.

Our "learn to live in losec with people who will shoot you" camp ran out of people who will shoot you, so I told them they need to move. They moved, the locals then invited the rest of the Uni to shoot them. There shall be many explosions and hopefully more learning, but we're open to them ending it if they want the small gang stuff again.

And, for those of you who seem to think E-UNI is some kind of carebear heaven, you may want to check out our SOP and Killboard.

Also, if any more of the locals fancy 'allying' with us in the wars so they can shoot other locals without gate guns getting involved, feel free. I don't mind either way.

#freemoldenheath

What the hell's a CSM?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

3D Horrorshow
Refineco Industries
#28 - 2012-06-17 04:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: 3D Horrorshow
Male Duckface wrote:
Slow cattle that stray from the herd.



Mmm get the BBQ out, trust me, Unista grade beef is delicious.


Gunsaro > "Unista - It's What's for Dinner"

Angron Vail > "Unista, the other white meat"
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#29 - 2012-06-17 04:06:38 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
The OP seems rather confused, and if he was in E-UNI, then he would at least be able to get his facts straight.

Our "learn to live in losec with people who will shoot you" camp ran out of people who will shoot you, so I told them they need to move. They moved, the locals then invited the rest of the Uni to shoot them. There shall be many explosions and hopefully more learning, but we're open to them ending it if they want the small gang stuff again.

And, for those of you who seem to think E-UNI is some kind of carebear heaven, you may want to check out our SOP and Killboard.

Also, if any more of the locals fancy 'allying' with us in the wars so they can shoot other locals without gate guns getting involved, feel free. I don't mind either way.

#freemoldenheath


My favorite part was how you avoided the topic of your Campaign "History" that blatantly lies about what happened in those campaigns, and misrepresenting E-UNIs part of Corps and Alliances that have disbanded over the years. Your page makes it seem like you are the sole reasons several groups don't exist anymore, which is completely bullshit. Not only that, but it includes dec fees on all of the wars you lost, so that you can try to save face and pretend it wasn't a loss.

If you wish for people to think highly of E-UNI, you might want to start by accurately representing what happened, rather than lying through your teeth.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#30 - 2012-06-17 06:25:24 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
My favorite part was how you avoided the topic of your Campaign "History" that blatantly lies about what happened in those campaigns, and misrepresenting E-UNIs part of Corps and Alliances that have disbanded over the years...
Missed this bit at the top of the page, I take it?
UniWiki Page wrote:
Unfortunately, after declaring war on E-UNI, many corporations tend to encounter problems, either from public humiliation or internal pressures...

It should be made clear that IVY and E-UNI in no way claim responsibility of any of the below statuses - this is simply a record of the corporations and their history in relation to the wars involving E-UNI, and there are no timescales provided...


How about this:
Wikipedia wrote:
War is an organized, armed, and often a prolonged conflict that is carried on between states, nations, or other parties typified by extreme aggression, social disruption, and usually high mortality.
We're a teaching and learning institution, and as such we expect and in some cases even encourage losses/kills. ISK values, and by extension efficiency on killboards, doesn't mean anything significant beyond the wealth of the participants, and E-UNI members have effectively unlimited resources via our hangars and ship reimbursement.

Seeing as there's no permadeath in EVE, and as there are no pre-declared objectives in wardecs, the only effective measure of win/lose being 'does the other side still exist?'. In many cases, they don't.

EVE University has been around for over 8 years, has stood though something like 300+ wars (E-UNI, BLUE, IVY) and will still be here after the next 300. It may not look the same, but then EVE itself doesn't look the same as it did when it did 8 years ago.

Some people survive wars. Some don't. EVE University has.

We use that metric, along with 'have the members learnt something' to decide who won. We tend to win.


That said, the standard offer is open - if you fancy helping us 'correct' what you believe is wrong with our curriculum, you can come teach, let me know what you think is wrong and provide a solution to it, or simply set up a competitor and do it 'right'.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#31 - 2012-06-17 06:39:30 UTC
Male Duckface wrote:
Those of you that have access to hisec need to hit them where it hurts, the carebears. Plenty of Unistas don't bother reading the WSOP and will autopilot an Orca thru hisec, AFK mine in a belt, or run missions solo in something shiny.


Small tip, and I'd have expected Mr Duckface to have realised this as he's ex-Uni himself, but the member's don't have anything to do with setting policies, the SOP, or what gets chosen as a target.

If anything, those who lose stuff foolishly will learn from the mistakes, or they will ragequit, or we eventually kick them out for being stupid. It doesn't matter to any of the staff or management, and if anything gives the others more reasons to fight harder.

We used to police the SOP and members, and attempt to save people from their own stupidity, but the amount of work needed versus the 'learning experience' of losing their shiny new ship, it turns out its better to just let them die - they usually won't do it again, and neither will others who hear about it.

Still, if you want to try it out, go for it.
3D Horrorshow
Refineco Industries
#32 - 2012-06-17 06:53:30 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:

Still, if you want to try it out, go for it.


http://r1fta.zzeve.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=13252

You were right, that WAS fun.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#33 - 2012-06-17 07:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Missed this bit at the top of the page, I take it?


Ah, I did in fact miss this part. Point taken.

However, including the dec fee in your ISK efficiency calculations is ridiculous. Granted, you did note where you included it (assuming the labels are 100% accurate). Either way, skewing your efficiencies with these numbers is misrepresenting your performance in those wars, and should be removed.

Kelduum Revaan wrote:
We're a teaching and learning institution, and as such we expect and in some cases even encourage losses/kills. ISK values, and by extension efficiency on killboards, doesn't mean anything significant beyond the wealth of the participants, and E-UNI members have effectively unlimited resources via our hangars and ship reimbursement.


Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Seeing as there's no permadeath in EVE, and as there are no pre-declared objectives in wardecs, the only effective measure of win/lose being 'does the other side still exist?'. In many cases, they don't.


When you're dealing with wars that do not involve territory (ie anything that is not sov null or over a WH), the only meaningful metrics are K/D ratio and ISK efficiency, as these are the only metrics that can be both effectively recorded and interpreted months after hostilities end. The only time the "does the other side still exist" argument becomes valid is when the other side disbands or dies solely due to the actions of the surviving side.

Kelduum Revaan wrote:
We use that metric, along with 'have the members learnt something' to decide who won. We tend to win.


See above.

Kelduum Revaan wrote:
That said, the standard offer is open - if you fancy helping us 'correct' what you believe is wrong with our curriculum, you can come teach, let me know what you think is wrong and provide a solution to it, or simply set up a competitor and do it 'right'.



While I applaud some of your initiatives regarding ship reimbursement, the fact is that 99% of the E-UNI members I've come across run and hide at the first sign of trouble, unless they outnumber their potential opponent by a factor of ten or more. RvB tends to do better in this regard, but I also think they're bad for new players. Granted, E-UNI and RvB help players learn the basics of the game, but at the same time, many of the things taught, particularly when it comes to pvp, are in line with only using blob-warfare as a tactic. Sure, this is great for null-sec entities, but the reality is that the individual players only learn to follow orders from the FC and hit F1 when appropriate. While there will certainly be a small number of players who can actually think and fight for themselves, the vast majority are left without gaining any useful abilities or knowledge.

As far as the offer goes, there's no way in hell I'd join E-UNI. This is not because I'm against helping noobs (I actually take in and train them in small numbers so that they learn how to actually do things on their own), but because I would be a poor fit. I'm literally one of the bigger internet spaceship douche-bags who fights dirty, scams, ganks, and pushes the mechanics to their limits because they grant me an advantage. Besides, I would probably have to awox half of the corp to make up for the stain on my employment history.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#34 - 2012-06-17 07:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
Double post due to ~forums~ Cry
Darian Reymont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-06-17 10:13:46 UTC
This is possibly the worst thread related to us that I've ever seen, which is really saying something.

OP, if you're a unista, you're an absolute disgrace and should leave the corp immediately before I find out who you are and kick you.

To everybody else, the misrepresentation of facts going on here is incredible. We didn't go into Molden Heath with the aim to blob the area into submission, we went there looking for good fights and learning opportunities. Those fights were had initially and we learned a huge amount from the sniper gangs who initially tore us apart. Everybody was seemingly happy to have is in the area, until our tactics escalated beyond the point where the locals could cope. That's when the complaints started coming in, with us being told we weren't "playing fair". When the wardecs came in we spoke with Gunpoint and were told in no uncertain terms that we should either surrender and change the way we were playing or they would "drive us out of the area".

I don't know of many corps who react well to threats and we certainly didn't react well. The University has always had people trying to bully it into changing the way it operates and so far nobody has succeeded. If the MH locals want to work with us to improve the LSC program for everybody involved, then that's something I'd love to do, but we certainly won't be rolling over because they tell us to.

What a terrible way to start my Sunday. I need bacon, stat.

Former E-UNI Director, station pilot and snoob. https://twitter.com//DarianReymont

CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#36 - 2012-06-17 10:24:18 UTC
Darian Reymont wrote:
This is possibly the worst thread related to us that I've ever seen, which is really saying something.

OP, if you're a unista, you're an absolute disgrace and should leave the corp immediately before I find out who you are and kick you.

To everybody else, the misrepresentation of facts going on here is incredible. We didn't go into Molden Heath with the aim to blob the area into submission, we went there looking for good fights and learning opportunities. Those fights were had initially and we learned a huge amount from the sniper gangs who initially tore us apart. Everybody was seemingly happy to have is in the area, until our tactics escalated beyond the point where the locals could cope. That's when the complaints started coming in, with us being told we weren't "playing fair". When the wardecs came in we spoke with Gunpoint and were told in no uncertain terms that we should either surrender and change the way we were playing or they would "drive us out of the area".

I don't know of many corps who react well to threats and we certainly didn't react well. The University has always had people trying to bully it into changing the way it operates and so far nobody has succeeded. If the MH locals want to work with us to improve the LSC program for everybody involved, then that's something I'd love to do, but we certainly won't be rolling over because they tell us to.

What a terrible way to start my Sunday. I need bacon, stat.



You upset the natural order.

You state your aim is to teach pilots pvp- this is incorrect. You teach your pilots nothing except how to follow orders. Great feeding alliance for large nullsec alliances.

To all uni members - the rest of eve laughs at you

(especially these rules - no talking in local and remain docked until ordered otherwise. WHAT FUN!)
Dasrufken
Nova Ardour
#37 - 2012-06-17 10:28:32 UTC
Wolf Mudchewer wrote:
First off all I would just like to state that this post is in now way connected to Eve University or any of its alliesin any wave shape or perform. This is posted by me as an observant on the affair. I am also typing it is real late here and English is not my first language so sorry for understandings in advanced.


Its funny because you keep referring to eve uni as "WE", as you can see bolded, italicised and underlined in the following quotes

Wolf Mudchewer wrote:
Eve Universities LSC (low sec camp) recently moved to Heild solar space system in M Heath after a crushing and successful burning of the Hagilur pocket. Basing from Dudreda solar space system we burned down the locals and everything that came to visit through the use of carefully put together fleets and tactics.

Management decided to spread out our LSC to the new region and at first all was good as we moved in our fleet and equpment and loaded in the glory of the new surroundings. The once famous pirate haven was ready for LSC clean up. We scored some easy kills in the first day and even forced some of the pirates to abandon the place they wrongly claimed their home. Big smile


Wolf Mudchewer wrote:
Fast forward a bit and the new unfair wardec systems that ccp has introduced to help the attackers


Oh, I'm sorry you mean the new wardec system that allows the defender to hire AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF ALLIES and lock the attacker into an endless war by making it mutual, yup that so favors the agressor am I right folks?

Wolf Mudchewer wrote:
and EVE UNI has encouraged Gunpoint Diplomacy, Black Rebel Rifters Club and LYFTER alliance to start unfair wars on us. This is causing internal chaos at management levels and is a headache and the fighting is starting to spoil the enjoyment of the game for the LSC regulars.


Well boo ******* hoo, isn't that the exact same thing that you have been doing to anyone with -5 or less security status in lowsec? Blobbing some poor unsuspecting battlecruiser with more ECM than the combined forces of the CFC. Spare us your biased whining.



This entire next paragraph just screams out "LOL IM AN ALT OF AN EVE UNI MEMBER AND I'M REALLY MAD THAT YOU DECLARED WAR ON ME SINCE I NO LONGER CAN RUN MY LEVEL 4 MISSIONS".

Wolf Mudchewer wrote:
The full force of brutality and THE BLOB as these asshats like to call it. (read advanced tactics for the normal eve citizen). Will be readied for action. If the pirates think they can win a war against a hoard then they are in for a disapointment time

NO WARDEC HAS EVER BEEN LOST BY EVE UNIVERSITY. EVERY WARDEC AGAINST THEM HAS RESULTED IN THE CRUSHING OF THE AGGRESSORS. LET THAT BE A WARNING. Twisted WE ARE FUELLED BY HATE AN DO NOT TAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST US LIGHTLY. REMEMBER THIS.

Unlimited allies will be added to every wardec at zero cost. This is an open invite passed onto me by the management as a trusted 3rd party. If you want to aid the uni against these unfair wardecs and shoot the reason so many players leave eve then now is your chance. Together we can fight them. Join with us and help stop this foul behavour.


Let me just remind you guys that this guy is "in now way connected to Eve University or any of its allies"



I was going to write some witty critique to your reasoning here but its too early for me and I cant think properly. I'll edit this post later today.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#38 - 2012-06-17 10:39:38 UTC
The plot thickens...

Darian Reymont wrote:
OP, if you're a unista, you're an absolute disgrace and should leave the corp immediately before I find out who you are and kick you.


Anger is fear announced.
Maraner
The Executioners
#39 - 2012-06-17 11:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maraner
As one of the Alliances that have war dec'd Eve uni, just wanted to point out a few things.

You came down to our place and set up large number gate camps... and expected what exactly? That we would give you the numbers and the gate guns?

Most of the Molden Heath pirate groups are flashy red ( as in -10.0) this gave the Uni fleets too much of an advantage, so decs started dropping. As for Capital Punishment, most of us are not flashy, but dont want to burn through what is left of our sec killing Eve uni frigs.

The dec stays til your out of MH. Thanks for livening things up though Twisted
Klown Walk
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#40 - 2012-06-17 11:16:00 UTC
You can´t teach people to pvp in a blob, it just doesn´t work. I joined one about one month ago, all I did was wait for the 4 tackling ships to get a target and then warp in with the fleet for an easy kill. Learning fleet commands seems pointless in low sec imo and that is easier to learn in a smaller group.

You would be better of splitting into smaller groups with specifice ship setups like long range kiting, that way they learn to pay attention to things like the overview and managing speed/distances. It´s the best way to help them deal with the fear of getting their ship destroyed aswell.