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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#561 - 2012-06-15 14:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
RubyPorto wrote:
Time runs in one direction, Brewlar. T2 BPOs and Invention were created at different times.

You're ideas are idiotic, have already been debunked, and you're no longer bothering to reply to anyone else.


Because content just randomly appears out of no where with out a plan or any prior planning or discussion amongst Devs? Shocked Actually you may be onto something here.

Clearly an event occurred at CCP where someone put forward the well thought out invention plan but sadly another tard existed who had a half arsed idea called a T2BPO lottery that got let out the bag first. Can some one link with information to who these individuals are and what other areas of eve they work on? Or is there some crazy Jeckle and Hyde character at CCP who made both? Who comes out with brilliant ideas for gameplay (Invention) and then suffers from severe bouts of brain damage (T2BPO).
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#562 - 2012-06-15 14:35:05 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Time runs in one direction, Brewlar. T2 BPOs and Invention were created at different times.

You're ideas are idiotic, have already been debunked, and you're no longer bothering to reply to anyone else.


Because content just randomly appears out of no where with out a plan or any prior planning or discussion amongst Devs? Shocked Actually you may be onto something here.

Clearly an event occurred at CCP where someone put forward the well thought out invention plan but sadly another tard existed who had a half arsed idea called a T2BPO lottery that got let out the bag first. Can some one link with information to who these individuals are and what other areas of eve they work on? Or is there some crazy Jeckle and Hyde character at CCP who made both?


If CCP had a Time Machine, I don't think they'd be running EvE.

Salo Aldeland wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
DEATH TO PIE!


"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#563 - 2012-06-15 14:39:46 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

My opinion that anyone dumb enough to support T2BPO is probably a big enough idiot to steal from their employer or do the DEVS at CCP seriously support invention running alongside T2BPO's? Because if that is the case I will have to create a new group to describe them.)


Since this forum section is for discussions and THERE IS no discussion ITT happening anymore and even the op offcially stated that its all about bumping the thread to keep the political agenda up, I request to close this thread.

shar'ra phone home
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#564 - 2012-06-15 14:47:59 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

My opinion that anyone dumb enough to support T2BPO is probably a big enough idiot to steal from their employer or do the DEVS at CCP seriously support invention running alongside T2BPO's? Because if that is the case I will have to create a new group to describe them.)


Since this forum section is for discussions and THERE IS no discussion ITT happening anymore and even the op offcially stated that its all about bumping the thread to keep the political agenda up, I request to close this thread.


Thread was closed once before and all that occurred was several threads on the T2BPO discussion opening by several different players, I think all sides of the T2BPO argument can agree that more than one post on T2BPO is not welcome as it obscures other industry posts in it's shadow.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#565 - 2012-06-15 15:26:36 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
[quote=shar'ra matcevsovski]

Thread was closed once before and all that occurred was several threads on the T2BPO discussion opening by several different players.


several chars, not players.

Forums are made to discuss issues, not to advertise the opinion just of 1 person because he thinks its against his business.

close this thread make CCP real, remove EVE and close this thread.

shar'ra phone home
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#566 - 2012-06-15 15:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
[quote=shar'ra matcevsovski]

Thread was closed once before and all that occurred was several threads on the T2BPO discussion opening by several different players.


several chars, not players.

Forums are made to discuss issues, not to advertise the opinion just of 1 person because he thinks its against his business.

close this thread make CCP real, remove EVE and close this thread.


Adjust your Tin foil hat because anyone and everyone who speaks out against T2BPO is my alt according to you. At last count I have around 200 accounts.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#567 - 2012-06-15 15:57:03 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
[quote=shar'ra matcevsovski]

Thread was closed once before and all that occurred was several threads on the T2BPO discussion opening by several different players.


several chars, not players.

Forums are made to discuss issues, not to advertise the opinion just of 1 person because he thinks its against his business.

close this thread make CCP real, remove EVE and close this thread.


Actually, I only saw two characters create threads when the last one was locked. So, assuming that the second character, whose views and rationale match Brewlar's perfectly and whose writing and posting style matches (to my untrained eye) Brewlar's, is a second person; Two people have an issue with T2BPOs, many more do not.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#568 - 2012-06-15 16:44:16 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Poor EVE seriously sad to see that such a lame item as T2BPO exists in an interesting and complex game, shame one or a small amount of Devs can have such a negative effect on the game. T2BPO's seriously do not belong in this game especially running alongside invention.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.


87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from invention
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72% of Falcons from invention.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

Where is this "negative effect" of which you speak? Invention has some lines, bpo have some lines. No biggie.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#569 - 2012-06-15 17:33:55 UTC
Dude seriously hates pie.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#570 - 2012-06-15 19:27:30 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Poor EVE seriously sad to see that such a lame item as T2BPO exists in an interesting and complex game, shame one or a small amount of Devs can have such a negative effect on the game. T2BPO's seriously do not belong in this game especially running alongside invention.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.


87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from invention
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72% of Falcons from invention.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

Where is this "negative effect" of which you speak? Invention has some lines, bpo have some lines. No biggie.



BPO has every line, invention only has lines where no T2BPO exists or where demand outstrips the T2BPO.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#571 - 2012-06-15 20:26:34 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Poor EVE seriously sad to see that such a lame item as T2BPO exists in an interesting and complex game, shame one or a small amount of Devs can have such a negative effect on the game. T2BPO's seriously do not belong in this game especially running alongside invention.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.


87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from invention
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72% of Falcons from invention.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

Where is this "negative effect" of which you speak? Invention has some lines, bpo have some lines. No biggie.



BPO has every line, invention only has lines where no T2BPO exists or where demand outstrips the T2BPO.


BPO does not have every line, invention has more lines than T2BPO and on the ones that make more money. You come up with your numbers, then multiply by how many are sold and multiply that by how much they're worth, you'll see you're talking about TRIVIAL numbers.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#572 - 2012-06-15 20:38:56 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Poor EVE seriously sad to see that such a lame item as T2BPO exists in an interesting and complex game, shame one or a small amount of Devs can have such a negative effect on the game. T2BPO's seriously do not belong in this game especially running alongside invention.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.


87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from invention
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72% of Falcons from invention.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

Where is this "negative effect" of which you speak? Invention has some lines, bpo have some lines. No biggie.



BPO has every line, invention only has lines where no T2BPO exists or where demand outstrips the T2BPO.


BPO does not have every line, invention has more lines than T2BPO and on the ones that make more money. You come up with your numbers, then multiply by how many are sold and multiply that by how much they're worth, you'll see you're talking about TRIVIAL numbers.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.



By significant he means absolutely game breaking for those that do no own said T2BPO. To say the amount of Hulks produced from BPO is ********. It's billions of isk worth each month.
Ore Bunny
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#573 - 2012-06-15 20:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ore Bunny
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

By significant he means absolutely game breaking for those that do no own said T2BPO. To say the amount of Hulks produced from BPO is ********. It's billions of isk worth each month.


http://eveeye.com/profit.asp?blueprint=Hulk+Blueprint&ML=10&PL=10

~2,5 bn profit for 24/7 manufaction is hardly unfair, significant or game breaking when the BPO is a investment of easy half a trillion (means no matter if the Owner uses the BPO or not, he has still much more cake than you)

bring more such good examples, Cakehater
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#574 - 2012-06-15 21:23:17 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

By significant he means absolutely game breaking for those that do no own said T2BPO. To say the amount of Hulks produced from BPO is ********. It's billions of isk worth each month.


Ok, Brewlar's converted me. I hate Pie too. Too many cream pies have I stuffed down my gullet. My belt's burst, and I think I need the hospital. Oh, the crap I'm going to take in the morning.

Anyway, the Hulks produced from BPOs are a trivial percentage of the market, make no meaningful impact on the income of inventors, and are still a terrible ROI for BPO holders.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#575 - 2012-06-15 21:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Smohq Anmirorz
"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

Quote:


By significant he means absolutely game breaking for those that do no own said T2BPO. To say the amount of Hulks produced from BPO is ********. It's billions of isk worth each month.


Most of which is profit for INVENTORS. Thus, Hulk BPO holders do not have a significant impact on the market.

By significant, he means that if most of them are made by T2BPO holders, you can bet that item probably has little demand, also.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#576 - 2012-06-15 22:26:34 UTC
''Interceptors'' A commonly used and commonly destroyed ship which is dominated by a handful of t2BPO owners. Sweet.

Remove T2BPO let non pet players manufacture interceptors for profit instead of CCP's chosen friends.
Ore Bunny
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#577 - 2012-06-15 22:48:59 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
''Interceptors'' A commonly used and commonly destroyed ship which is dominated by a handful of t2BPO owners. Sweet.

Remove T2BPO let non pet players manufacture interceptors for profit instead of CCP's chosen friends.


WRONG...do your homework better please (or actually do the numbers finally)

even with a BPO you can make negative profit-->
http://eveeye.com/profit.asp?blueprint=Crusader+Blueprint&ML=50&PL=50&P=1&sellPrice=11.048.992,00

or make decent profit with a bpc
http://eveeye.com/profit.asp?blueprint=Crow+Blueprint&ML=-4&PL=-4&P=1



Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#578 - 2012-06-15 23:07:51 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
''Interceptors'' A commonly used and commonly destroyed ship which is dominated by a handful of t2BPO owners. Sweet.

Remove T2BPO let non pet players manufacture interceptors for profit instead of CCP's chosen friends.


OK, let's look at the paragraphs which you are basing your argument on:

Quote:

Heavy Assault Ships have historically been one of the most popular Tech II ship class due to their high versatility in combat, resulting in high demand. However, their production time is rather long, requiring 1.5 days to build each unit on average. BPO holders therefore cannot fully keep up with the high demand, which creates opportunity for inventors to step in and provide the much needed supply.
On the other end of the spectrum are Interceptors, which are mostly produced from BPOs. Due to their fast build time, BPO holders can churn them out quickly in great numbers, filling a large portion of the demand for these ships. Their relatively slim profit margins versus larger and more expensive ship classes make them an unattractive choice for inventors. Three out of every four Heavy Assault Ships available on the market are built using BPCs, while only 16% of all Interceptors are produced with BPCs.
High demand therefore leads to increased number of invention jobs for popular spaceships, such as the Heavy Assault ships, even though the main rule seems to be that invention for spaceships is a high risk but low profit venture.
As evident from the Demographics section in this QEN, the Hulk is currently the most frequently flown ship in EVE. During Q2 more than 20,000 Hulks were manufactured.

With BPCs accounting for almost 90% of all Hulk production, we can assume that the high demand for the ship as well as the low supply provided by BPO owners due to the long manufacturing time contributes greatly to the attractiveness of pursuing Hulk invention.





From this, you have decided that BPO's are overpowered. From one type of ship on the far end of the spectrum from a 3-year-old report. If someone pushes you for a specific statistic, this is the one you keep using like it represents how all T2 BPO's work.

So, again....

87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from invention
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72% of Falcons from invention.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#579 - 2012-06-15 23:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Ore Bunny wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
''Interceptors'' A commonly used and commonly destroyed ship which is dominated by a handful of t2BPO owners. Sweet.

Remove T2BPO let non pet players manufacture interceptors for profit instead of CCP's chosen friends.


WRONG...do your homework better please (or actually do the numbers finally)

even with a BPO you can make negative profit-->
http://eveeye.com/profit.asp?blueprint=Crusader+Blueprint&ML=50&PL=50&P=1&sellPrice=11.048.992,00

or make decent profit with a bpc
http://eveeye.com/profit.asp?blueprint=Crow+Blueprint&ML=-4&PL=-4&P=1





WTF are you on? You link two different ships. Lets clear this up a T2BPO is always capable of undercutting invention after success rate is factored correctly. T2BPO undercuts every single invention field if there is profit in making an invention then so will there be using the BPO. Where as the other way round is not guaranteed because and let me write this in caps T2BPO IS BROKEN IT IS OVERPOWERED. T2BPO'S UNDERCUT INVENTION for zero effort and only negligible investments in RP, THIS IS WRONG. Please understand this.

Remove T2BPO make EVE real.
Ore Bunny
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#580 - 2012-06-15 23:27:41 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


WTF are you on? You link two different ships.

Remove T2BPO make EVE real.


no ****, I linked two ships!

2 examples to prove that your theory about interceptors was just wrong. first example that showed you, that even with a T2 BPO you make negative profit (who cares if somebody can uncercut you or not when you lose money by building it), the other that you can make significant profit with inventing them.

god damn, I even have to explain the simplest explanation and you still dont get it.Roll