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Crime & Punishment

 
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Is This Really Aggression?
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Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#1 - 2012-06-15 14:38:42 UTC
I have played this game for less than 2 weeks, I admit, I am a noob. But something happened to me the other day that seemed unfair.

I was jetcan mining in high-sec space. Another player warped in with a global aggression flag (he was blinking red immediately). I figured I was in high sec space so there wasn’t much he could do, I checked his cargo capacity, only 300m3 so no immediate risk of stealing. Still, I figured he might have friends or another ship nearby so I warped away to get my industrial ship. When I got back he had transferred everything from my can to a can of his own and was just waiting in his cruiser. I went to grab the stuff but was warned that if I did he could attack me.

So my question is two things. A: What should I have done considering I didn’t have a ship that could combat his? B: Does it really seem fair to mark me as an aggressor when all I want to do is haul away my own stuff?
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#2 - 2012-06-15 14:45:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CorInaXeraL
Paul Panala wrote:
I have played this game for less than 2 weeks, I admit, I am a noob. But something happened to me the other day that seemed unfair.

I was jetcan mining in high-sec space. Another player warped in with a global aggression flag (he was blinking red immediately). I figured I was in high sec space so there wasn’t much he could do, I checked his cargo capacity, only 300m3 so no immediate risk of stealing. Still, I figured he might have friends or another ship nearby so I warped away to get my industrial ship. When I got back he had transferred everything from my can to a can of his own and was just waiting in his cruiser. I went to grab the stuff but was warned that if I did he could attack me.

So my question is two things. A: What should I have done considering I didn’t have a ship that could combat his? B: Does it really seem fair to mark me as an aggressor when all I want to do is haul away my own stuff?



If you had taken from his can, he would have demolished you. In cases like that, it is best to empty your can prior to leaving. He probably had already looted from a wreck or can you had in another belt (hence the blinky-blinky). At best, without the ability to combat him...you eat the loss of time/material.

As for fair...well, this is EVE. Nothing is 'fair'. It simply 'is'. He stole from you. If you stole from him (the 'two wrongs don't make a right' comes to mind here) even if only to get your stuff back, he'd have been allowed to bite into your hull.

Think of it as playing 'Alpha Dog'. He stole your stuff and gave you a chance to punch him in the face. You did not... he gains the rights to his earnings and your losses. Had you been able to punch him in the face, nuts, jaw, spleen...etc, and won? It would all be yours.


Them's the breaks.


*ninja edit*

Jet-cans are trash cans. You jettison it, you pretty much open yourself up to that sort of thievery. There's a reason you are warned about jet-can launches. Blink Consider dropping a secured can next time.
Synar Earthoof
OSD Clan FleetCom
Silver Dragonz
#3 - 2012-06-15 14:52:42 UTC
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#4 - 2012-06-15 14:54:17 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:



Very valid point. Big smile What system were you in?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-15 14:58:09 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:


That only works in the starter systems, all of which are 1.0.

But not all 1.0 systems are starter systems Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#6 - 2012-06-15 15:04:29 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Synar Earthoof wrote:
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:


That only works in the starter systems, all of which are 1.0.

But not all 1.0 systems are starter systems Big smile


Thought they altered it to 0.7+ and any system with the epic arc agents? *scrounges notes and posts and the donut box*
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#7 - 2012-06-15 15:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Panala
Thanks, I figured it was just a matter of "it is what it is." It was in 0.7 space, not a starter system, I moved to be close to some friends. No biggie, I only lost about 30 minutes of mining.
Flakey Foont
#8 - 2012-06-15 15:08:46 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Synar Earthoof wrote:
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:


That only works in the starter systems, all of which are 1.0.

But not all 1.0 systems are starter systems Big smile


Thought they altered it to 0.7+ and any system with the epic arc agents? *scrounges notes and posts and the donut box*


Where does it say that?
voorsk
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-06-15 15:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: voorsk
a) Should've used a secure container.
b) Once stolen, it becomes his stuff. That's why he became red, and that's why you'd become red if you stole it back. If it didn't work that way, he'd just steal the stuff outright with a hauler, and fly away laughing.

I personally think it shouldn't flag as aggression, and that jetcans should be a free for all. The only reason they exist is because there had to be a mechanic for jettisoning stuff into space without all the individual items lagging everything up (and requiring models).

The rules of jetcans may seem unfair, but remember that you're jetcan mining, which is really just a legalised exploit that stops CCP having to code a different way of jettisoning stuff, so you can't really complain. :P
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#10 - 2012-06-15 15:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: CorInaXeraL
Quote:
Can flipping is officially considered griefing only in Rookie Systems. Some people do it just for fun, without the actual intent to cause the feelings of harassment and frustration in the victim. It is, however, also a typical form of griefing in the classic sense.


Quote:
Rookie Systems

Rookie systems are the systems in which new players begin their time in Eve. The Starter Systems are the systems in which the players will start when they log in for the first time. The Career Agent systems are the systems where the career tutorial agents can be found. This is the list of systems that are considered Rookie systems.((See link below for system list))


Sources:
Griefing - See Can Flipping Section
Rookie Systems
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#11 - 2012-06-15 15:14:31 UTC
Keep the ore in your cargo hold next time. Jet cans are trash cans. Can you really get mad at people for stealing your trash?

Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com
Paul Panala
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#12 - 2012-06-15 15:43:43 UTC
Longinius Spear wrote:
Keep the ore in your cargo hold next time. Jet cans are trash cans. Can you really get mad at people for stealing your trash?


That is easy enough to say, but when your mining ship hold holds 1,000 m3 or less it isn't really practical. I don't think anyone would jetcan for the heck of it, I am sure anyone who does is doing so because they don't have space in their hull.

I don't agree with the comment that jetcanning is an unintentional exploit, maybe it started out that way, but the training tutorial teaches you how to do it, that sounds pretty official.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#13 - 2012-06-15 15:49:23 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
Longinius Spear wrote:
Keep the ore in your cargo hold next time. Jet cans are trash cans. Can you really get mad at people for stealing your trash?


That is easy enough to say, but when your mining ship hold holds 1,000 m3 or less it isn't really practical. I don't think anyone would jetcan for the heck of it, I am sure anyone who does is doing so because they don't have space in their hull.

I don't agree with the comment that jetcanning is an unintentional exploit, maybe it started out that way, but the training tutorial teaches you how to do it, that sounds pretty official.



It's a risk you have to either decide is worth taking or not. Most who mine in a jetcan have a hauler hovering right next to it to pull everything (save that 1 unit to keep the can alive), or are very methodical about how they jettison and move. I would hesitate calling exploits or the sorts, but stick with the notion that a jetcan is a trash-can, and as such becomes free to mess with once you kick it out of your hold.

Secure cans are absolutely the best option for solo-ship mining.
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#14 - 2012-06-15 15:56:22 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
Longinius Spear wrote:
Keep the ore in your cargo hold next time. Jet cans are trash cans. Can you really get mad at people for stealing your trash?


That is easy enough to say, but when your mining ship hold holds 1,000 m3 or less it isn't really practical. I don't think anyone would jetcan for the heck of it, I am sure anyone who does is doing so because they don't have space in their hull.

I don't agree with the comment that jetcanning is an unintentional exploit, maybe it started out that way, but the training tutorial teaches you how to do it, that sounds pretty official.


Well when your hull fills up, you just fly back to the station and unload. Dumping into open space just seems like your asking for trouble.

Your not ASKING for trouble are you?

"I mined all this gold but because my pockets couldn't hold it so I threw it in the street behind my house." "Don't pick it up because its still mine, and I plain on picking it up later"

See the problems this could cause? Its just not safe.

Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-06-15 16:20:19 UTC
voorsk wrote:
a) Should've used a secure container.
b) Once stolen, it becomes his stuff. That's why he became red, and that's why you'd become red if you stole it back. If it didn't work that way, he'd just steal the stuff outright with a hauler, and fly away laughing.

I personally think it shouldn't flag as aggression, and that jetcans should be a free for all. The only reason they exist is because there had to be a mechanic for jettisoning stuff into space without all the individual items lagging everything up (and requiring models).

The rules of jetcans may seem unfair, but remember that you're jetcan mining, which is really just a legalised exploit that stops CCP having to code a different way of jettisoning stuff, so you can't really complain. :P



Thats why I keep a pvp ship in systems if I jetcan mine just for the fun of it actually its fun to go set these dumbasses up with jet cans and bait them so they think they are baiting you.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-06-15 16:48:21 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
Thanks, I figured it was just a matter of "it is what it is." It was in 0.7 space, not a starter system, I moved to be close to some friends. No biggie, I only lost about 30 minutes of mining.


You have a good mindset. Welcome to EVE, I think you will do good here.

.
Doddy
Excidium.
#17 - 2012-06-16 16:09:55 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Quote:
Can flipping is officially considered griefing only in Rookie Systems. Some people do it just for fun, without the actual intent to cause the feelings of harassment and frustration in the victim. It is, however, also a typical form of griefing in the classic sense.


Quote:
Rookie Systems

Rookie systems are the systems in which new players begin their time in Eve. The Starter Systems are the systems in which the players will start when they log in for the first time. The Career Agent systems are the systems where the career tutorial agents can be found. This is the list of systems that are considered Rookie systems.((See link below for system list))


Sources:
Griefing - See Can Flipping Section
Rookie Systems


So no at all what you said.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#18 - 2012-06-17 08:16:32 UTC
If he has you already locked...

1. Bookmark his can.
2. Warp away to nearest celestial.
3. Warp to his can.
4. Align towards safespot.
5. Take from his can.
6. Warp off.
7. Wait out your timer as you smacktalk him in local.
8. Tell him you have made his mother to appear.
9. Dock up.
10. Smack talk him some more in local and make sure to rub in his failure of ganking you.
11. After 15 minutes undock and continue to smack like a bastard.
11. ????
12. PROFIT!!!

Winning isn't about blowing stuff up or making isk. It's about making people frustrated.
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-06-17 12:24:04 UTC
Synar Earthoof wrote:
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:


Please stop repeating this nonsense on the forums.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-06-17 12:31:19 UTC
Ra Jackson wrote:
Synar Earthoof wrote:
Also bear in mind the security status of the system.

If it is a .7 or high system, petition him for can baiting in a rookie system...
CCP has no tolerance for wtf pwning noobs D:


Please stop repeating this nonsense on the forums.


Some people talk out of their ass without any knowledge, theres nothing you can do.
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