These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The weak, and the strong
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-06-13 10:53:27 UTC
Did´nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don´t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don´t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?
Jonni Favorite
Militant Industrialists LLC
Militant Consortium
#122 - 2012-06-13 11:00:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Savage Angel wrote:


Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems.


Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.


We bow down in front of the Almighty E-peen! Habadahabada o-mahHabadahabada
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#123 - 2012-06-13 11:03:29 UTC
My Postman wrote:
Did´nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don´t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don´t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?



the prices of officer/X-type items are set by the players, they're not intrinsic. So they're worth what we all on aggregate say they are.

That said, they're popular and useful for Titan/Supercarrier fits.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2012-06-13 11:26:22 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
My Postman wrote:
Did´nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don´t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don´t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?



the prices of officer/X-type items are set by the players, they're not intrinsic. So they're worth what we all on aggregate say they are.

That said, they're popular and useful for Titan/Supercarrier fits.



I agree on that with you.

But i´m willing to bet if only Titan/Super folks fit that modules, prices will plummet. There MUST be a market for the "dumb".
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#125 - 2012-06-13 11:37:53 UTC
I'm sure that "dumb" is a market segment for Officer mods. Some people play to max out their ship as the goal itself, not to max their ISK efficiency.

Which is fine and good, more power to them. As long as they don't demand that the rules of the game be changed to protect them. I can fit officer mods to my Velators if I choose; that doesn't entitle me to demand that CCP make noobships invulnerable and then claim that what I'm really interested in is "protecting new players".

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#126 - 2012-06-13 17:38:59 UTC
Quote:
I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec.


Utter bullshit. 4k hulks destroyed and the price of minerals has gone DOWN. That's how many bots there are in this ******* game.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Wolf Kruol
Suicide Squad Gamma
#127 - 2012-06-13 17:49:44 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Quote:
But if ccp keeps suppording these types of players


Its these types of players that are supporting CCP, silly. Check the map population.
We are in highsec because we like doing stuff in peace(not 100% safe mind you), you are in hisec because you want to ruin our days because you are too bored with your space.

Hisec and newbies see EVE as a scifi game with a bit of risk and lots of free choices, they enjoy it
You see it as a constant kill or be killed game, you enjoy it. What they don't enjoy is being constant victims unless they start seeing the game through your eyes. At that point EVE becomes a game that they don't want to play.
Yes we all support ccp. highsec is a false reality. It tricks you to believe your safe. but infact your not. No where is safe. No matter how many harderners or buffs you put. If someone wants to kill you it can be done. Any ship can be ganked, if the person or people willing to put the resourses to do it.

goons did a nice job with that during the jita burning event. Showed many that highsec isn't safe as you like to believe.

What I enjoy in this game.. is the killing. Everthing else sucks. I don't care what language you speak or what color your skin is or how old you are.. male or female... PEWPEW all the way.. Twisted

“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#128 - 2012-06-13 18:07:10 UTC
Wolf Kruol wrote:
PEWPEW all the way.. Twisted

I take it you don't use artillery then... or missiles.

Lasers or hybrids?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#129 - 2012-06-13 18:09:12 UTC
My Postman wrote:
Did´nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don´t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don´t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?


Lol. While in your playstyle it may be perfectly fine to complete missions in twice the amount of time, in mine only "the dumb" run missions slowly.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Kerist Lafayette
The Lafayette Family
#130 - 2012-06-13 18:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerist Lafayette
Jenn aSide wrote:
Savage Angel wrote:
Not sure if it is strong vs weak or just committed vs not. The ones that left adapted as well, just in a way that fit them.


I can see what you mean, but I tend to think of adapting as "somehow continuing on in the same general direction".

By your logic, people who commit suicide are simply adapting to the preassures of real life lol.


Yes, well, you see, that's the difference between real life and games.

There's really no alternative to going to school, so you have to live with the playground bullies, adapt, fight back and in some way survive. There's no alternative to having a job, so you have to find your way around the abusive boss, the obnoxious twunt next desk and so on - you can be self-employed but it's still a job, and unless you're self-employed collecting coconuts on a deserted island, you still have to interact with the occasional obnoxious twunt. You fight back, you adapt, you spend your teen years headbutting bullies until they leave you alone (or you go all Stockholm Syndrome, decide they really are the cool kids and after a few years you become a Goon - but I digress) or you decide you really need to take another route to get home after school. It's called real life.

This. Is. A. Game. The options are different. Quitting is not like quitting school. In fact it's a perfectly reasonable option if your idea of fun is doing something that is impossible to do in Eve.

Continuing in the same general direction means "having fun playing an online game". You adapt by playing a game where you can have fun, as opposed to a game where the environment forces you into activities that are not fun for you.

Repeat with me: It. Is. A. Game.

Edit: I'd like to point out that this is not (yet) the case for me. I have fun playing Eve, I'm a carebear, I've been ganked a number of times, it's part of the game. I find PvP boring (I had a PvP toon - I trained, I won some fights, I lost others, well, I really lost more than I won but it's normal, ended up being so bored I sold it) and I enjoy mining and building. There are risks, I accept them. Others might not.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-06-13 18:38:47 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Not so much about strength or weakness, more about the will to survive. With the will to survive comes the ability to thrive in Eve.


Its a game ... ffs


Yeah exactly, talk of "weak and strong" is as absurd as talk of "sociopaths".

It seems that both "sides" have a blind spot in their EVE - they actually think that rl "rules" apply in the game in some way, and that in-game behaviour should reflect rl personality.

It's all make-believe, kids.

Hate on each other in-game, in character, all you like, but let's stop this divisive nonsense in the EVE community of players.

So long as CCP has a rule that means some places are safer than others, because "policed", there will always be a reasonable expectation of greater safety in those areas. So griefers can't expect a free ride.

So long as CCP has a rule that means nowhere is absolutely safe, there will always be a reasonable expectation that ganking ought to be possible anywhere in the game - although more difficult and costly in the high security areas than anywhere else. So carebears need to always be alert.

These two have to be balanced - whether CCP have the balance right is always up for debate, but that there must be a balance, and that both PvE and PvP playstyles have a place in the game, ought to be beyond dispute.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#132 - 2012-06-13 18:42:23 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec.


Utter bullshit. 4k hulks destroyed and the price of minerals has gone DOWN. That's how many bots there are in this ******* game.



Price of mins has gone down ??? what game are you playing ?? and of course all hi sec miners are bots Roll jeez


Tal


Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-06-13 18:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
The best solution is the simplest.

CCP should delete these types of threads. They do nothing but lead to a bunch of bickering.

CCP has a vision, and a system in place that supports that vision. No amount of bitching from one side or the other is going to change it.

It works. It's undeniable. If it wasn't working EVE wouldn't have gotten where it is today.



CCP needs to make one thread, title it "gankers vs miners", sticky it to the top of the forum, and let people go nuts in it. Any thread after that follows the same point should immediately be merged or removed and people directed to the sticky thread were they can do all the bitching at each other that they want, without having to have dozens of posts that result in people writing the same thing over and over.

The moment this thread dies down, and begins it's decent towards page 2, a new thread will pop up continuing this pointless cycle.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#134 - 2012-06-13 20:13:14 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Not so much about strength or weakness, more about the will to survive. With the will to survive comes the ability to thrive in Eve.


Its a game ... ffs


Yeah exactly, talk of "weak and strong" is as absurd as talk of "sociopaths".

It seems that both "sides" have a blind spot in their EVE - they actually think that rl "rules" apply in the game in some way, and that in-game behaviour should reflect rl personality.

It's all make-believe, kids.

Hate on each other in-game, in character, all you like, but let's stop this divisive nonsense in the EVE community of players.

So long as CCP has a rule that means some places are safer than others, because "policed", there will always be a reasonable expectation of greater safety in those areas. So griefers can't expect a free ride.

So long as CCP has a rule that means nowhere is absolutely safe, there will always be a reasonable expectation that ganking ought to be possible anywhere in the game - although more difficult and costly in the high security areas than anywhere else. So carebears need to always be alert.

These two have to be balanced - whether CCP have the balance right is always up for debate, but that there must be a balance, and that both PvE and PvP playstyles have a place in the game, ought to be beyond dispute.


Lol.

Go into work tomorrow and tell them;

"I play a sci-fi space game on the internet. I fly around all day after work and kill miners. I kill the same person over and over until the game is unplayable to them. I send them hate mail after I kill them, and I try to extort protection money, and don't honor the bribe afterwards. They have to either pay real world money to keep playing the game or quit. Its so fun."

That won't make you a "sociopath", but you will be viewed as a total douche henceforth.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
RAP ACTION HERO
#135 - 2012-06-14 01:51:17 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Not so much about strength or weakness, more about the will to survive. With the will to survive comes the ability to thrive in Eve.


Its a game ... ffs


Yeah exactly, talk of "weak and strong" is as absurd as talk of "sociopaths".

It seems that both "sides" have a blind spot in their EVE - they actually think that rl "rules" apply in the game in some way, and that in-game behaviour should reflect rl personality.

It's all make-believe, kids.

Hate on each other in-game, in character, all you like, but let's stop this divisive nonsense in the EVE community of players.

So long as CCP has a rule that means some places are safer than others, because "policed", there will always be a reasonable expectation of greater safety in those areas. So griefers can't expect a free ride.

So long as CCP has a rule that means nowhere is absolutely safe, there will always be a reasonable expectation that ganking ought to be possible anywhere in the game - although more difficult and costly in the high security areas than anywhere else. So carebears need to always be alert.

These two have to be balanced - whether CCP have the balance right is always up for debate, but that there must be a balance, and that both PvE and PvP playstyles have a place in the game, ought to be beyond dispute.


Lol.

Go into work tomorrow and tell them;

"I play a sci-fi space game on the internet. I fly around all day after work and kill miners. I kill the same person over and over until the game is unplayable to them. I send them hate mail after I kill them, and I try to extort protection money, and don't honor the bribe afterwards. They have to either pay real world money to keep playing the game or quit. Its so fun."

That won't make you a "sociopath", but you will be viewed as a total douche henceforth.

a few issues buddy, that same person killed over and over is a bot
gankers don't send hate mail, the ganked do
it's not protection extortion it's a scamming
ganked or not many people are already paying a sub.

vitoc erryday
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#136 - 2012-06-14 01:52:58 UTC
Kerist Lafayette wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Savage Angel wrote:
Not sure if it is strong vs weak or just committed vs not. The ones that left adapted as well, just in a way that fit them.


I can see what you mean, but I tend to think of adapting as "somehow continuing on in the same general direction".

By your logic, people who commit suicide are simply adapting to the preassures of real life lol.


Yes, well, you see, that's the difference between real life and games.

There's really no alternative to going to school, so you have to live with the playground bullies, adapt, fight back and in some way survive. There's no alternative to having a job, so you have to find your way around the abusive boss, the obnoxious twunt next desk and so on - you can be self-employed but it's still a job, and unless you're self-employed collecting coconuts on a deserted island, you still have to interact with the occasional obnoxious twunt. You fight back, you adapt, you spend your teen years headbutting bullies until they leave you alone (or you go all Stockholm Syndrome, decide they really are the cool kids and after a few years you become a Goon - but I digress) or you decide you really need to take another route to get home after school. It's called real life.

This. Is. A. Game. The options are different. Quitting is not like quitting school. In fact it's a perfectly reasonable option if your idea of fun is doing something that is impossible to do in Eve.

Continuing in the same general direction means "having fun playing an online game". You adapt by playing a game where you can have fun, as opposed to a game where the environment forces you into activities that are not fun for you.

Repeat with me: It. Is. A. Game.

Edit: I'd like to point out that this is not (yet) the case for me. I have fun playing Eve, I'm a carebear, I've been ganked a number of times, it's part of the game. I find PvP boring (I had a PvP toon - I trained, I won some fights, I lost others, well, I really lost more than I won but it's normal, ended up being so bored I sold it) and I enjoy mining and building. There are risks, I accept them. Others might not.


This kind of thinking can best be described as apologist.

Yea, it's a game, we all know that. But it's an activity that thousands upon thousand of real human being decide to spend precious real life money on.

If it's important enough to spend money on, important enough to spend some of our precious but definetly finite time on this earth doing, imo that makes it a bit more than "just a game".

You can tell a lot about a person, how "weak, or strong" their personalities are, by how they react to negative events. The people who adapt to defend the fun they are having are demonstrating more strength of character than those who quit orthose who continue but whine about it.

The main gist my op was a suggestion that maybe the whiners haven't considered. Others can be role models, in this case, the sturdy mission runner accepting slightly less isk to make him/herself less attractive to gankers should be (and I think largly, is, in the case of the silent majority of miners who aren't on her complaining) seen as the appropriate path forward.

The 4k hulks haqve been killed is evidence of the entitlement so many have felt in high sec, and while I remain fervently anti-Goon, I'm glad Goons do things like this. It's what makes eve EVE. Love it or leave it.
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2012-06-15 10:49:11 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
My Postman wrote:
Did´nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don´t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don´t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?


Lol. While in your playstyle it may be perfectly fine to complete missions in twice the amount of time, in mine only "the dumb" run missions slowly.



Ok, dear sir!

And how many L4´s do you have to run to compensate the loss of your +5b officer fitted Nightmare, cause of beeing ganked for the lulz.?
Wolf Kruol
Suicide Squad Gamma
#138 - 2012-06-15 13:26:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Wolf Kruol wrote:
PEWPEW all the way.. Twisted

I take it you don't use artillery then... or missiles.

Lasers or hybrids?
I do use
all of the above and more. Big smile

“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”
Frying Doom
#139 - 2012-06-15 13:32:23 UTC
After reading the Title I was hoping for a discussion on Coffee Big smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kaijusan
Austro-Hungarian Empire
#140 - 2012-06-15 13:41:58 UTC
The amount of forum posts I see, usually about the same crap over and over, makes me wonder who exactly is logged in and playing atm.