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Faction T2 Items
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Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#1 - 2012-06-15 06:30:48 UTC
Perharps it could be interestening to create T2 Faction items.

They would have the same caracteristics than their T1 versions with the advantages of T2 bonuses and T2 charges.

I know that it would open the pandora box but why not?

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-06-15 07:03:24 UTC
because if you want power creep, go play wow. and i'm not even trolling.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Detenal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-06-15 07:18:48 UTC
There is already enough damage output with the current setup. Basically the better the faction/officer stuff you use the better fitting requirements. That's the bonus, the end.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-06-15 07:40:23 UTC
This only matters to weapons and only really to scorch M/L, barrage M/L and null M/L. I don't think the game needs more kiteable dps.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-15 07:58:33 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
This only matters to weapons and only really to scorch M/L, barrage M/L and null M/L. I don't think the game needs more kiteable dps.

don't forget scourge fury.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#6 - 2012-06-15 10:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
There is not only weapon Faction item.
What about T2 Faction Hardeners or Repairers?

It is more about the standardization of the system. I do not need more power but I find the T2 system a bit illogic.

The game mechanics are a bit strange.
If you exchange for example Dual Light Pulse Laser II with True Sansha Dual light Pulse (on the same ship and with the same charges), you will have less firepower and exactly the same tracking. The only difference is about fitting capability that will be better with the Faction items.
This is not the same on the other faction modules (like hardeners) that will give better performance and better fitting capability than a T2 at equal skills.


I just want to have reactions about this subject. Please let World of Warcraft out of this thread.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#7 - 2012-06-15 10:50:51 UTC
So basically you want something with the benefits of T2 (greater power) and faction (fit friendly) without any disadvantadge?

Ehm... no. EVE is good because to be good at something, you have to deal with the drawbacks. If you want the tightest fit available, you will have to trade power. If you want power, you will have to trade some modules because they don't fit.

Having modules with both benefits and no drawback will be imbalanced and will make T1 faction and t2 equipment to disappear.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#8 - 2012-06-15 13:54:20 UTC
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:

Having modules with both benefits and no drawback will be imbalanced and will make T1 faction and t2 equipment to disappear.


No it wouldn't. We already have a lot of faction/deadspace mods and t1t/t2 mods are doing great.
High/very high price and low/very low supply are limiting factors here.

Nonetheless, introduction of T2 faction items is bad idea for reasons already stated by previous posters.
You can't have everything. It's always something for something and faction/deadspace items are already good enough ( better bonuses and fitting attributes ).
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-15 14:17:09 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Perharps it could be interestening to create T2 Faction items.

They would have the same caracteristics than their T1 versions with the advantages of T2 bonuses and T2 charges.

I know that it would open the pandora box but why not?



T2 armor rep 800hp

Highest tier Dead Space Armor Rep 1260

Imho no, we don't need Tech 2 pirate or dead space mods, we do need some balance in between player Items and NPC ones thou.

This would probably difficult to balance properly but ASAP many Tech 2 mods are in deep need of stats increase in some significant way:

-armor reps: HP/cycle/cpu/pg, there IS a real need of Armor Ancillary reps just like shields (this mod just made shield tanking completely out of whack)

-plates: drawbacks because use of plates are far too heavy, cumulative with rig drawbacks (silly you say?) and Tech 2 mods are nice BPOs to let asleep in your hangar.

Just two examples why we don't need Tech 2 variants of pirate/dead space mods
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2012-06-15 14:33:53 UTC
the only thing really out of whack is the deadspace shield boosters. In a game where a few % points are huge, they have 50%-100% better performance than their t2 counterparts, while deadspace armor repairers enjoy only a 10-20% advantage.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Bibosikus
Air
#11 - 2012-06-15 14:44:11 UTC
I think what the OP is really getting at is the complete mish-mash of attribute levels we have in the current sets of Meta4-T2-faction kit.

I agree there should be a better logic to it; as you climb the meta levels, you should get some sort of increased benefit either in fitting or offence/defence etc. As it stands, some item groups have better attributes in their Meta range than others.

With Meta 4, take CPR vs SPR for example. The Meta 4 CPR is easier fitting but less cap recharge compared to T2. The Meta 4 SPR is easier fitting and identical shield recharge...





Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#12 - 2012-06-16 07:40:14 UTC
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:
So basically you want something with the benefits of T2 (greater power) and faction (fit friendly) without any disadvantadge?

Ehm... no. EVE is good because to be good at something, you have to deal with the drawbacks. If you want the tightest fit available, you will have to trade power. If you want power, you will have to trade some modules because they don't fit.

Having modules with both benefits and no drawback will be imbalanced and will make T1 faction and t2 equipment to disappear.


In fact it is already the case:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=11269
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=15739

Best performance, AND less CPU need, less skill needed too. The only différence is the price.

It is not the same thing for weapons though. And that is the problem. Why two skilling systems?

For weapons: T1= base skill T2= Specialization skill.
For other Items there is no specialization skill.

This difference modify the way faction items interact with T2 items.

the system should be for all items:

T1 Meta 0 to Meta 4 with T1 Skill 1 to 3 required.
T2 Meta 5 with T1 skill 5 and Specialization 1 required.
T1 Faction Meta 6 to Meta 12 with T1 Skill 4 required.
T2 Faction Meta 8 to Meta 14 with T1 Skill 5 and T2 Specialisation 3 required.

Of course the caracteristics of each item should be adapted to fit with this standardization.
Perharps after Ship Standardization?

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Headerman1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-06-16 08:03:02 UTC
WTB: T2 Bhaalgorn
Headerman1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-06-16 08:22:46 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
I think what the OP is really getting at is the complete mish-mash of attribute levels we have in the current sets of Meta4-T2-faction kit.

I agree there should be a better logic to it; as you climb the meta levels, you should get some sort of increased benefit either in fitting or offence/defence etc. As it stands, some item groups have better attributes in their Meta range than others.

With Meta 4, take CPR vs SPR for example. The Meta 4 CPR is easier fitting but less cap recharge compared to T2. The Meta 4 SPR is easier fitting and identical shield recharge...







Or in short, T2 items need to have something better than Meta 4 or lower mods, something besides it simply being able to be made (ala T2 1600 plates Vs Rolled Tungsten)?
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#15 - 2012-06-17 00:46:25 UTC
Headerman1 wrote:
Bibosikus wrote:
I think what the OP is really getting at is the complete mish-mash of attribute levels we have in the current sets of Meta4-T2-faction kit.

I agree there should be a better logic to it; as you climb the meta levels, you should get some sort of increased benefit either in fitting or offence/defence etc. As it stands, some item groups have better attributes in their Meta range than others.

With Meta 4, take CPR vs SPR for example. The Meta 4 CPR is easier fitting but less cap recharge compared to T2. The Meta 4 SPR is easier fitting and identical shield recharge...







Or in short, T2 items need to have something better than Meta 4 or lower mods, something besides it simply being able to be made (ala T2 1600 plates Vs Rolled Tungsten)?

T2 weapons get the specialization skill, which gives them up to ten percent bonus damage.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-06-17 10:50:12 UTC
As I said, the only time T2 is straight up better is for turrets and then mostly for the long range ammo for short range guns. For missiles this is less the case since faction launchers are vastly better than T2 launchers.

Yes there are a number of items where meta 4 is better than T2 and this should be looked at but apart from this and the turrets meta lvl is a good marker for power of an item.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-06-17 17:24:30 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
T2 weapons get the specialization skill, which gives them up to ten percent bonus damage.


And then you have faction launchers with faction ammo (higher rof than T2 launchers), add T2 missiles penalties ...

And then you have faction AM and T2 short range blaster/rails ammo:

-unless your target is sitting like a duck you will use faction AM instead of T2 blaster ammo (-25% tracking)

-unless you have no tackle/bubbles you'll use faction AM instead of Rails T2 short range ammo (+25% tracking but -75% range), you loose 25% tracking but win 100% range for a pathetic dps loss

Then you have Dead space mods completely overpowered: shield boosters and invulns -those should become on pair with armor repairers or bring armor repairers on pair with those shield boosters

Now add some pathetic armor plating requiring more time to adapt you ship usually lasts on the field, versus ancillary shield boosters and again, balance numbers are awfully drunk

brb