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Drone Boats need love
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Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#21 - 2012-06-15 05:52:28 UTC
I didn't say "Balance" at all, I saied "Love"

For kicks I'm going to explain long way, two people max skills both. One Dominix fitted to be a drone boat ranged combat like old drone boats in the past. One in Magathorn say for ***** ranged also (I know ranged magas are not great). Each having 5 Heavy Drones Orge 2s. Both are Armor fitted but Dominix has 1 low slot for damage mod for drones, 2 mid slots for drones and 2 high for drones. Say nether can warp out for what ever reason. They are sitting around 100,000m, the Dominix can send yes it's drones out past 100,000m the Maga can't, only 60,000m Whom you think would win... Give hit, not Dominix
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#22 - 2012-06-15 05:53:10 UTC
Tonanin wrote:
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
Drone Damage Amplifier;

T1 is an extra 15%
T2 is an extra 19%

Ships with Drone bonuses and a full flight of heavies can easily get 700 DPS from drones alone.



I haven't seen them in game are they out yet? If so are they a mid slot mod? Yes 700 DPS I know drones have high dps, but the drones only do about 1/2 the damage of a Battleship with full 8 guns do.


So in summary, you aren't up to date on game developments that affect drones, you can't name or fly half the drone boats in the game, and you can't accurately quote new or old drone damage numbers?
Alara IonStorm
#23 - 2012-06-15 05:58:35 UTC
Tonanin wrote:

For kicks I'm going to explain long way, two people max skills both. One Dominix fitted to be a drone boat ranged combat like old drone boats in the past. One in Magathorn say for ***** ranged also (I know ranged magas are not great). Each having 5 Heavy Drones Orge 2s. Both are Armor fitted but Dominix has 1 low slot for damage mod for drones, 2 mid slots for drones and 2 high for drones. Say nether can warp out for what ever reason. They are sitting around 100,000m, the Dominix can send yes it's drones out past 100,000m the Maga can't, only 60,000m Whom you think would win... Give hit, not Dominix

Shocked

Well your fight scenario that no pilot would fit these ships for much less realistically find themselves in has convinced me that you know what you are talking about...

Think I was too obvious or do you think I should get a pair of these. [Sarcasm] [/Sarcasm]
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#24 - 2012-06-15 06:13:22 UTC
My Dominix, is fitted with Blasters no drones options, web scram, armor tanked with a rep. But I don't seem to live long without support. Every test match I do in corp has me lossing against other battleships. I do know what I'm talking about and I have tryed railguns, blasters, autocannons even artillery but not working, have good tank but don't have damage. I drop low for drone damage I loss tank... I have tryed shield, was worse. Tryed with neuts/vamps don't work, I keeped lossing drones, they bought more for me... I don't see how I'm not knowing what I'm talking about.

So what would be bad about giving drone boats 5 more drones in space and having logi drones rep the controller without orders.... I don't see how that would be bad,
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#25 - 2012-06-15 06:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Tonanin wrote:
So what would be bad about giving drone boats 5 more drones in space and having logi drones rep the controller without orders.... I don't see how that would be bad,


Let's use a full gank sentry Domi before DDAs were introduced. That's 538 drone DPS plus ~500 gun DPS -- and that's with rails. Double the number of drones deployed and you get 1076 drone DPS plus 500 -- from rails. 1600 DPS doesn't seem excessive to you? And recall, that's now a low number....

Edit: that's 1600 at 50km, mind you. Damage a Vindicator gets at point blank.
Seleucus Ontuas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-06-15 07:00:06 UTC
Tonanin, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm thinking you need to post whatever fit you were previously using with a Dominix. Otherwise, if you think a ship like the Dominix needs a buff, I'd like you to name me one other ship that can use 5 Heavy Neuts with a 100k EHP Tank and still do 700 DPS.

The only one that comes to mind is the Bhaalgorn, which costs like, I don't know, around 1bil isk more than a Dominix.
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#27 - 2012-06-15 07:02:27 UTC
I don't use 5 neuts, my corp loves passive and autos so neuts don't work on them.

With a tracking of 0.036 rad/sec, knowing that you can't one shot a Battlecruiser or Battleship, no. A Cruiser yes worried a litte, Frigate not so, can warp before lock unles you running scan scripts, but then maybe still able to get away. I'm getting from drones only now 2142 for 5 so 4184 from 10. 6 425mm Railguns with Caldari Antimatter hits for 3003 so 7187 damage a volley. That is more like what is should be.
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#28 - 2012-06-15 07:03:54 UTC
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
Tonanin, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm thinking you need to post whatever fit you were previously using with a Dominix. Otherwise, if you think a ship like the Dominix needs a buff, I'd like you to name me one other ship that can use 5 Heavy Neuts with a 100k EHP Tank and still do 700 DPS.

The only one that comes to mind is the Bhaalgorn, which costs like, I don't know, around 1bil isk more than a Dominix.



Not saying your wrong, but tryed that, learned hard way it doesn't work on them.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#29 - 2012-06-15 07:17:09 UTC
Sooo....what yo want to do is to take one of the best and versatile battleships and nearly double its damage output.Roll

While some drone boats could use some SMALL buffs here and there, Dominix is NOT one of them.

Ishtar needs some buffs in fitting department for sure. Drone Proteus could use some love to make it more in line with the Tengu ( DDAs make it much better than it was before though ).
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#30 - 2012-06-15 07:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonanin
Yes the Dominix is one of the best drone boats giving out 5185 volleys right now but a Magathron does almost 1001 more damage in volleys. Same thing is with all the drone boats of all levels. Cruiser vs. Cruiser drone boat. same, lower damage volleys. same for Battlecruisers. Not to say the drone boats have lower health over all. in Dominix vs. Maga around 3150 effective hp. Yay drone boats don't need anything....... maybe just a fix here or there in power, cpu, cap.

This is using Caldari antimatter rounds. with same guns but maga has missile bay also.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-06-15 07:32:43 UTC
Tonanin wrote:
I don't use 5 neuts, my corp loves passive and autos so neuts don't work on them.

With a tracking of 0.036 rad/sec, knowing that you can't one shot a Battlecruiser or Battleship, no. A Cruiser yes worried a litte, Frigate not so, can warp before lock unles you running scan scripts, but then maybe still able to get away. I'm getting from drones only now 2142 for 5 so 4184 from 10. 6 425mm Railguns with Caldari Antimatter hits for 3003 so 7187 damage a volley. That is more like what is should be.


I'm seriously hoping you are using google translate or something. Your fragmented style in this thread makes it hard to understand.

First off the domi rocks. it is extremely versatile.

And even against a passive setup neuts will make a difference. If they are passive shield fit, they are generally still using hardeners. Neuts will also shut down scrams, and their prop mods and so forth.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-06-15 07:34:36 UTC
More than 5 drones will never return due to server load. In the 100k scenario you described, sentries are the way to go, not heavies.
Heun zero
MAYHEM BOYZ
#33 - 2012-06-15 08:05:25 UTC
There have been many people telling you that drone boats in general are in no way underpowered at the moment. You dont seem to allow yourself to be concinced because your personal experience tells you something different. so either all the forum warriors are wrong, or you are doing something wrong (incl having poor skills maybe).

Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
Tonanin, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm thinking you need to post whatever fit you were previously using with a Dominix. Otherwise, if you think a ship like the Dominix needs a buff, I'd like you to name me one other ship that can use 5 Heavy Neuts with a 100k EHP Tank and still do 700 DPS.

The only one that comes to mind is the Bhaalgorn, which costs like, I don't know, around 1bil isk more than a Dominix.


like this poster I think you should post your fit, so people can tell you where you've gone wrong.
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#34 - 2012-06-15 08:11:48 UTC
[Dominix Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
'Hauberk' Large Armor Repairer I
Reactor Control Unit II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Large Anti-Thermic Pump II
Large Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II


Ogre II x5
Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Berserker SW-900 x2
Praetor EV-900 x2
Wasp EC-900 x1
Hobgoblin II x5
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-06-15 08:19:03 UTC
Tonanin wrote:
[Dominix Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
'Hauberk' Large Armor Repairer I
Reactor Control Unit II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Large Anti-Thermic Pump II
Large Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II


Ogre II x5
Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Berserker SW-900 x2
Praetor EV-900 x2
Wasp EC-900 x1
Hobgoblin II x5


Do you seriously fly this? or are you just EFT warrioring?
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#36 - 2012-06-15 08:27:54 UTC
I fly that
Headerman1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-06-15 09:04:37 UTC
Tonanin wrote:
I fly that


I would like to know where.
Anazzar
Polaris Space Industries
#38 - 2012-06-15 09:11:42 UTC
trolledhard.jpg
Tonanin
Some Guys Making Cash
#39 - 2012-06-15 09:47:55 UTC
Funny thing is I was just saying when I started this that it would be nice to get 10 drones in space again and change logi a bit to rep the contorller of the drones. It turned ugly right way with a few people saying things that they really should and because of that this tread turned out different then I was thinking it would turn out. So I still stick with my thought of 10 drones and the change to logi drones.

Now for all those that called me fake or question me, I can't fit tech 2 all yet on the Dominix yet, the large hybrids are only at level 2, been working on Command ship skills. Other then that and the Praetor EV-900 x2 and Wasp EC-900 x1 are the only then I can't use. I have been playing from 07, played until I was deployed over seas to the middle east so couldn't keep skills up and reactivated account after someone I work with reminded me about it.

So I'm going to ask this once, please don't replay unless you have input on the 10 drones or the logi drones reps the controller.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-06-15 10:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunkwill Khashour
Tonanin wrote:
[Dominix Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
'Hauberk' Large Armor Repairer I
Reactor Control Unit II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Large Anti-Thermic Pump II
Large Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II


Ogre II x5
Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Berserker SW-900 x2
Praetor EV-900 x2
Wasp EC-900 x1
Hobgoblin II x5


Some preliminary remarks:
1. I'm assuming you're not trolling for the sake of this post.
2. Large TII armor rigs are incredibly expensive for subcapital ships. In your case you fit 2 of those domis wtih T1 rigs for the worth of your current ship.
3. With a scram, 2 webs and void loaded, you can only engage a ship within 10k of your ship. However your top speed is 120m/s. This means you'll never catch anything.
4. Don't mix a cap booster with other cap mods.
5. The RCUII is not needed, at all.
6. The EW drones are not worth it. Webbing is stacking penalized with your own webs, the neut drones don't do enough, a single ecm drone is not enough either and them being heavy drones, they don't have the speed to engage anything.


Try the similar fit below:
[Dominix Navy Issue, 2 lar slightly pimped]

Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer

Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II

Electron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Berserker II x6
Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x10
Ogre II x1
Ogre II x5


Slightly less dps but better tank, better drones and the ability to actually catch stuff. More good fits can found at http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?6962-PVP-Dominix-Navy-Issue

Edit: in the link you'll find a setup with medium blasters aswell.