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Fixing Gallente
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Ravyn Antollare
Dead Space Continuum
#21 - 2012-06-12 00:23:31 UTC
If I had it to do again, and i would not lose all these skills trained, I would pick Caldari. The own the center of the Universe space wise, have better boats and harder hitting weapons. Caldari seem to be about the best all round offering.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-12 01:36:55 UTC
Ravyn Antollare wrote:
better boats and harder hitting weapons. Caldari seem to be about the best all round offering

Actually Lol'd
Youre misunderstanding something:
-Caldari ships move a a snails pace and have the sig of a small moon. I wouldnt call them 'better boats.
-Harder Hitting Weapons? Non Damage bonused Rails dont hit Hard. Missiles Dont hit hard. Non damage bonused blasters hit decently well - if only the bonus that replaced the potential damage bonus was worth a damn with blasters
Caldari are NOT the best all around. They do 3 things well: Drake, Stupid Long Range where your guns can *plink plink* your target to death, and ECM.

I DEFY you to tell me youd prefer an Eagle over a Deimos, a Ferox over a Brutix, or a Rokh over a Megathron.

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Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-06-12 09:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
Mira Lynne wrote:
Non damage bonused blasters hit decently well - if only the bonus that replaced the potential damage bonus was worth a damn with blasters
Caldari are NOT the best all around. They do 3 things well: Drake, Stupid Long Range where your guns can *plink plink* your target to death, and ECM.

I DEFY you to tell me youd prefer an Eagle over a Deimos, a Ferox over a Brutix, or a Rokh over a Megathron.


We're changing our main BS doctrine to the Rokh, so... yeah.

Also Rokhs do blasters reasonably well.

Rokh has range bonuses - 22km optimal vs 13km optimal with Null on Neutron IIs. Also it has a shield tank, and can get over 100k EHP with 3 hardeners a large extender and CDFE rigs, which still leaves room for a MWD, Cap Booster, and leaves the lows free for damage mods and nanos.

It won't have the raw damage of a Gallente blaster platform, but at least it can get into range and live longer.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-06-12 09:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Colonel Xaven
Actually I have to agree to OP. There was a time when Gallente actually was worth something in fleets (remember sniper Mega times?) Now you rarely see any. No Megas, no Deimos', no Eris' etc. Even to see a Domi is a highlight nowadays.

I'd like to see a comeback of Gallente ships in PvP (others than the Arazu or Moros).

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Enna Bairelle
Aeolus Logistics
#25 - 2012-06-15 00:28:07 UTC

  1. +20m/s base speed, 5% more agility to all Gallente ships.
  2. 10% less base hull hp, 5% more base armor hp to all Gallente ships.
  3. Give 10% more falloff to blasters. Or 5% more DPS. Seriously.
  4. Fitting rebalancing. More powergrid to the Deimos, and make the Eris' slot layout viable.
  5. Fix some ship bonus and Gallente specializations. BC Active Tank bonus is just ****, RSD is also crap now.


Now we'll kill one Drake and one Cane every day till our claims are fullfilled.
Serpensor
Affluence Industries
#26 - 2012-06-15 01:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Serpensor
I have always been baffled as to why CCP would have made the race that specializes in guns with such short range (blasters) not have the speed to get in close to use them. My thought is to either make Gallent ships the fastest ships on the field or significantly increase the range of their guns.
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-15 01:43:52 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Minmatar and Caldari are the most often flown. There isn't a Gallente boat in the top 20 ships flown in EVE at all. Amarr have the Abaddon up there, and I believe the zealot but thats it, the rest is all Min/Cal.


Why is this? Is it just popularity/FOTM, is it people don't know how to fly them, or is it that the ships are just that bad?

I can has blogging skills!
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#28 - 2012-06-15 02:31:00 UTC
Caldari has some popular PvP ships (Drake, Tengu and ECM mostly) and is the king of PvE. However I still think Minnie is top dog, they still do quite well at PvE (Mach is the best L4 mission boat despite Caldaris PvE strengths), their weapons are easily the best, which makes their fitting easy, and they can normally get out when it's not going for them which is absolutely priceless in PvP.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-06-15 04:31:30 UTC
Jafit wrote:
Also Rokhs do blasters reasonably (1) well.

Rokh has range bonuses - 22km optimal vs 13km optimal (2)with Null on Neutron IIs. Also it has a shield tank, and can get over 100k EHP with 3 hardeners a large extender and CDFE rigs, which still leaves room for a MWD, Cap Booster, and leaves the lows free for damage mods and nanos.

It won't have the raw damage of a Gallente blaster platform, but at least it can get into range (3) and live longer.

1: Yes, Reasonably. While a Mega would do it nigh on Perfectly.
2: Even with the Optimal range bonus, most of the range is still in falloff.
3: No it cant. Its tied for slowest T1 non faction BS with the Abaddon, and has significantly less Range.

Enna Bairelle wrote:

1+20m/s base speed, 5% more agility to all Gallente ships.
210% less base hull hp, 5% more base armor hp to all Gallente ships.
3Give 10% more falloff to blasters. Or 5% more DPS. Seriously.
4Fitting rebalancing. More powergrid to the Deimos, and make the Eris' slot layout viable.
5Fix some ship bonus and Gallente specializations. BC Active Tank bonus is just ****, RSD is also crap now.

1: No, then Maybe
2: Why?
3: No, then No.
4: No, then yes.
5: Yes
And Damps are being worked on.

Serpensor wrote:
I have always been baffled as to why CCP would have made the race that specializes in guns with such short range (blasters) not have the speed to get in close to use them. My thought is to either make Gallent ships the fastest ships on the field or significantly increase the range of their guns.

The fastest ships with the highest DPS Weapons - that track well - and also the largest drone bays. Thats totally balanced.
Both those suggestions would be game breaking if implemented alone. Blasters have **** range but WTF ******** DPS. Learn to fly to minimise your disadvantages and maximise your advantages.
If you want a fast, Long Range Gallente Blasterboat? Fit some TEs and some Nanos. You Trade DPS for Range and Vice versa, and you trade Tank for speed and Vice Versa. Want DPS and Range? Thats gonna cut into speed or range or both. Want speed and Tank? Gonna cut into DPS or Range or Both.

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Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-06-15 08:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
The shortest range weapons should be on the fastest hulls.... thats just how it should be.
THe longest range weapons on the fastest hulls would be game breaking -
Forever kiting vs hope to survive as you close the distance and get within range- at which point you'll need superior DPS application to make up for all the damage you suffered while getting in range
-of course, fixing the warp to zero mechanics could help - if all fights start at point blank, then its OP'd to have the fastest ship ith highest DPS, if the range disadvantage isn't coming into play.

As to learning how to fly....
Its not like you can learn how to make a hyperion catch a slasher....

The minmatar speed advantage is quite significant.
Putting a nano on an incursus only gets you 3.5% more speed than a Rifter - you've used up a slot, and you're basically as fast as the winmatar ship, your rate of closure on that rifter is going to be pathetic, all the while it pounds on you with its auotcannins which have superior range, and you've already sacrificed 20% of your hull HP just to fit the module that allows you to match the rifter in speed.

And of course, blaster DPS isn't as high as the number suggest because either:
1) You are in falloff (much deeper into falloff than the autocannons)
2) You are so close, that your guns don't track well (while the autos track better, and also won't have problems with falloff)
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-06-15 09:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
Mira Lynne wrote:
Jafit wrote:
Also Rokhs do blasters reasonably (1) well.

Rokh has range bonuses - 22km optimal vs 13km optimal (2)with Null on Neutron IIs. Also it has a shield tank, and can get over 100k EHP with 3 hardeners a large extender and CDFE rigs, which still leaves room for a MWD, Cap Booster, and leaves the lows free for damage mods and nanos.

It won't have the raw damage of a Gallente blaster platform, but at least it can get into range (3) and live longer.

1: Yes, Reasonably. While a Mega would do it nigh on Perfectly.
2: Even with the Optimal range bonus, most of the range is still in falloff.
3: No it cant. Its tied for slowest T1 non faction BS with the Abaddon, and has significantly less Range.


1. We should really be talking about the Hyperion instead of the Megathron, as it's the equivalent tier of the Rokh and I don't think its a fair comparison due to the Rokh's extra fitting over the Megathron. Particularly CPU

2. The falloff is the same as the optimal... as opposed to nearly double without bonuses. What point are you even trying to make here?

3. After fitting a 100k EHP shield tank, a Rokh has 5 lowslots that can be filled with magstabs and nanos that can get you up to a tanked megathron's speed and damage range, while having a better tank and hitting from further away. Bringing the Rokh's EHP down (but still greater than the mega) by not having CDFEs would allow rigging for velocity or more damage. This is all EFT warrior talk though.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#32 - 2012-06-15 13:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Verity Sovereign wrote:
The shortest range weapons should be on the fastest hulls.... thats just how it should be.
THe longest range weapons on the fastest hulls would be game breaking -

[...]

And of course, blaster DPS isn't as high as the number suggest because either:
1) You are in falloff (much deeper into falloff than the autocannons)
2) You are so close, that your guns don't track well (while the autos track better, and also won't have problems with falloff)


Hardest hitting weapons on the fastest ships would be OP because no ship would be able to escape them or keep range with them and no ship would be able to outdamage them at the close range they come to.

If you are in falloff with blasters, change your ammo.
Blasters had a tracking buff and track now beter than autocanons. If you cannot track your oponent, it cannot track you either unless you are doing something wrong (like using void from too close).

Blasters are fine. If any, rails could use a slight buff, but that's not even sure. Also, Gallente boat can now use their extended drone bay with web drones, which may give them the speed edge they lack.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#33 - 2012-06-18 20:57:51 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
The shortest range weapons should be on the fastest hulls.... thats just how it should be.
THe longest range weapons on the fastest hulls would be game breaking -

[...]

And of course, blaster DPS isn't as high as the number suggest because either:
1) You are in falloff (much deeper into falloff than the autocannons)
2) You are so close, that your guns don't track well (while the autos track better, and also won't have problems with falloff)


Hardest hitting weapons on the fastest ships would be OP because no ship would be able to escape them or keep range with them and no ship would be able to outdamage them at the close range they come to.

If you are in falloff with blasters, change your ammo.
Blasters had a tracking buff and track now beter than autocanons. If you cannot track your oponent, it cannot track you either unless you are doing something wrong (like using void from too close).

Blasters are fine. If any, rails could use a slight buff, but that's not even sure. Also, Gallente boat can now use their extended drone bay with web drones, which may give them the speed edge they lack.



EHh, this gets into the whole drone as an actual useful utility argument.
Joseph Kotaku
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-22 03:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph Kotaku
I am a noob to be sure but this is my 2c.
The way I see it the idea with blaster boats is to get in fast and hard and do as much damage in a short amount of time as possible; they are like charging bulls.
So perhaps leave them Ar tanked and keep the Ar Plate speed/agility penalties so they are still not very agile and have room for webber's and such but
give Gall blaster boats a significant bonus to MWD speed - make them fast, but only in a straight line and for a short amount of time.
This would mean they can close faster to deal their big blaster damage but could still be kited by skilled Matari pilots and worn down en-route by snipers.
Or something like that.

Also maybe adjust drone boats to be truly dedicated drone mini carriers instead of the turret/drone mix as they currently kinda are.
Remove most turret points (but not highs) and introduce more drone boosting modules for high slots. Maybe stuff like a damage boosters for specific damage types, drone durability enhancers and perhaps a special drone repair module that reps the armour of drones orbiting your ship.
Would need balancing of course but making a Gallente drone specialist as viable as a Caldari Missile specialist would be cool.
Lee Vanden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-09-11 13:02:25 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
The shortest range weapons should be on the fastest hulls.... thats just how it should be.
THe longest range weapons on the fastest hulls would be game breaking -

[...]

And of course, blaster DPS isn't as high as the number suggest because either:
1) You are in falloff (much deeper into falloff than the autocannons)
2) You are so close, that your guns don't track well (while the autos track better, and also won't have problems with falloff)


Hardest hitting weapons on the fastest ships would be OP because no ship would be able to escape them or keep range with them and no ship would be able to outdamage them at the close range they come to.

If you are in falloff with blasters, change your ammo.
Blasters had a tracking buff and track now beter than autocanons. If you cannot track your oponent, it cannot track you either unless you are doing something wrong (like using void from too close).

Blasters are fine. If any, rails could use a slight buff, but that's not even sure. Also, Gallente boat can now use their extended drone bay with web drones, which may give them the speed edge they lack.


The whole time a Gallante ship is trying to get into range of its target it can't fire, and the opponent is firing at him constantly without taking any damage at all. Once the Gallente ship is in range it must then chew through the targets full shields and armour before the opponent can finish off the Gallente ship which is already at half armour. The only way that the Gallente ship can catch up to the target and then kill the target before it dies, is if it is faster than its target and has much more powerful weapons, and even then there is a good chance that the target will kill the Gallente ship or warp off before the Gallente ship can cover the distance between them.
Saying that making the Gallente ships the fastest and while having blasters as the most powerful weapons would make Gallente OP is total BS, so long as the weapons range of blasters is so small it is completely necessary just to give them a fighting chance. It certainly wouldn't guarantee the Gallente ship victory as the target ship just has to damage the Gallente ships enough or warp off before the blasterboat gets close enough to open fire. Without making Gallente the fastest and hybrids the most powerful the Gallente ship will never get close enough to open fire, and if by some miracle it does then it won't put out enough dps to destroy the target before being destroyed itself.
Saying that giving the Gallente blasterboats a fighting chance in combat would actually make them OP is total bollocks, as you would know if you had ever flown one.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#36 - 2012-09-11 13:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Recent changes have served to blur some of the distinctions between Minmatar and Gallente. Increased AC DPS and semi-selectable damage types made ACs somewhat better in the blaster role, of getting up close and ripping someone's face off. Later, boosts to Null have resulted in making Gallente boats better in the Minmatar niche of fast kiting boat, with the Null Talos being a good example.

I'm not saying that these changes were necessarily bad (and don't confuse "better" with "better than" in the paragraph above!), just that I'd have probably chosen different balancing paths. I've always imagined ideal Minmatar-Gallente balance in terms of one race having a combination of very short-ranged DPS and good speed but poor agility, while the other has much less applied DPS close up, but much better applied DPS-at-range, while having less speed but greater acceleration and agility. The only problem with this sort of philosophy is that it may define ships' roles and styles too strongly - such that when you see a ship, you know exactly how its fit and how it will be flown, leading to excessive predictability and homogeneity. So maybe a bit of blurring is a good idea? What?
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