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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#541 - 2012-06-11 17:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


As for providing evidence go use google or check old forum posts


The reason why people ask you to provide evidences and numbers for your stories is not that they are not able to search for them on their own, its more because you never brought up any own evidences.

These 70% were prolly something stupid like interceptors that you selectively sold us for the avg. T2 Item made by a BPO.



I guess someone should make a thread "why T2 BPO`s are fine and should stay in the game as they are" and keep it bumped because this would be the only niveau of communication you understand, apparently.

shar'ra phone home
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#542 - 2012-06-11 22:46:20 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Remove T2BPO make eve Real.


Your contention is that T2 BPOs are unfair.

You suggest that CCP should make EvE more realistic.


Real Life is unfair.
Thus, T2 BPOs are realistic.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#543 - 2012-06-12 02:41:12 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:


how many times ppl have to show you, that they dont affect a huge part of the market?


Because 70% of T2 line is not huge? Uhm ok keep telling yourself that T2BPO was not a huge mistake.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

No, 70% of one item that hardly sells IS NOT HUGE.

And it's not like invention doesn't have it's own lines:
87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from inventino
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72$ of Falcons from invention.

By your logic, invention needs to be nerfed as they are having too big an impact on these markets.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#544 - 2012-06-12 12:47:43 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:


how many times ppl have to show you, that they dont affect a huge part of the market?


Because 70% of T2 line is not huge? Uhm ok keep telling yourself that T2BPO was not a huge mistake.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

No, 70% of one item that hardly sells IS NOT HUGE.

And it's not like invention doesn't have it's own lines:
87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from inventino
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72$ of Falcons from invention.

By your logic, invention needs to be nerfed as they are having too big an impact on these markets.


60% of invention could be split over 100 people. 70% of T2BPO will be split amongst 10 people and possibly their corps. End T2BPO end CCP's support of it's pet corps and allinces.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#545 - 2012-06-12 14:03:50 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


60% of invention could be split over 100 people. 70% of T2BPO will be split amongst 10 people and possibly their corps. End T2BPO end CCP's support of it's pet corps and allinces.



"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#546 - 2012-06-12 16:59:10 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:


how many times ppl have to show you, that they dont affect a huge part of the market?


Because 70% of T2 line is not huge? Uhm ok keep telling yourself that T2BPO was not a huge mistake.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

No, 70% of one item that hardly sells IS NOT HUGE.

And it's not like invention doesn't have it's own lines:
87% of Vulcan Autocannons from invention
97% of Scourge Fury Heavy missiles from invention
66% of Ishtars from invention
63% of Zealots from inventino
92% of covert ops cloaks from invention
72$ of Falcons from invention.

By your logic, invention needs to be nerfed as they are having too big an impact on these markets.


60% of invention could be split over 100 people. 70% of T2BPO will be split amongst 10 people and possibly their corps. End T2BPO end CCP's support of it's pet corps and allinces.


could be...

OK, well 60% of T2 BPO could be split over 100 people, and 70% of invention could be split amongst 10 people and possibly their corps. We don't know, so where you're going with this meaningless statement is beyond me.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#547 - 2012-06-13 14:09:42 UTC
Brewlar sees BPO holders getting three quarters of a certain pie and demands a fair share. Everybody else sees that in fact, the entire pie in question smaller than a single crumb from one of the many gigantic cakes on offer. We all get fat on cake, he still moans about pie.

"But Brewlar," we all say. "Who cares if they have a whole pie to themselves? There's more than enough cake out here for everybody! And it's much tastier, too!"

"I don't care," he says. "The only reason I don't have pie is because I wasn't at the front of the line when they were being handed out! I should get pie too!"

"No, the people at the front get the first slice of pie. That's how it works. But come on, there's no line up at all for cake and there's still mountains of it left!"

"I don't care," he goes on. "They only got to the front of the line because they're bigger and shoved all the others to the back!"

"Well yes, there are no rules against that. In fact it's almost the entire point of EVE."

"But that one time that one guy got that one slice of pie without even being in line! It's so unfair! Nobody should have pie at all if there isn't enough for everybody!"

"So what? He had to give it back anyway. Seriously, give it a rest about the pie."

"No! As long as there is still pie I will demand loudly that it all be thrown in the garbage!"

"That's just a **** move. All those guys that are eating pie had to pay a **** load for their tiny slice. How would you like it if somebody just threw a bunch of your hard earned food in the trash?"

"See? You're proving me right! People wouldn't pay so much for pie if it wasn't so tasty! And what about the guys that were at the front of the line, they still got it for nothing even if they just ended up selling it to somebody else. Pie is bull ****! DEATH TO PIE!"

"They didn't get it for nothing, the got it by being at the front of the line. Do you know how hard they had to work to get there? Being at the front means starting at the back and pushing everybody ahead of you out of the way. And each one is bigger and meaner than the next. And staying at the front means you have a never ending line of people wanting to shove you out of the way. Being first gets you free stuff sometimes, but being first isn't free at all."

"DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE!"
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#548 - 2012-06-13 21:31:11 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:


"DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE!"



Pumpkin Pie > Cake

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Dystopia Arkaral
Doomheim
#549 - 2012-06-13 23:27:37 UTC
I recently met and talked to someone who has a Jaguar BPO.

He runs it 24/7 and makes 99 jags a month. He could make more by using a conquorable station in 0.0 but t2 bpos in 0.0 is probably not a good idea

He looked at how many jags had been sold through all trade hubs and he was around 5% of sales, this is a very rough figure because some jags might have been bought from him in jita and then shipped to rens to sell for more.

He complains that he is always getting undercut by inventors. He has his price and sticks to it
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#550 - 2012-06-14 01:44:48 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Salo Aldeland wrote:


"DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE!"



Pumpkin Pie > Cake


But you only got that pie because you know the baker, so really it should be banned.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#551 - 2012-06-14 02:04:53 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Salo Aldeland wrote:


"DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE! DEATH TO PIE!"



Pumpkin Pie > Cake


But you only got that pie because you know the baker, so really it should be banned.


I will shank you (In Game, ofc [Hi ISDs o/], as soon as that's allowed with WiS[I hear it's Soon™) for suggesting such a thing as banning my precioussss pumpkin pie.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#552 - 2012-06-14 11:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Ehm no.

Brewlar says that no longer created game content that select players were given which allows them to dominate and under cut new players is wrong and that said content should be removed from game. I have no problem with unique ships that I do not have access to as they can be destroyed. T2BPO however can not as it sits in a station locked yet somehow accessible to an entire corp (makes zero sense) same goes for all BPO's. I believe a fair nerf to T2BPO would be to allow them only to be used in WH or null SOV null sec which would at least offer the chance for these items to be removed from game by POS destruction, ship ganks or at least have their value smashed in a station capture. Another simple nerf would be to insure that their ME falls behind invention BPC's along with no longer being able to manufacture while locked in station.

For the love of EVE either remove T2BPO as it was ill thought game content that completely undermines EVE's principles. Simply knowing a dev or being in EVE at the start should not guarantee success and these are factors that epitomise T2BPO's.

Make EVE real remove T2BPO.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#553 - 2012-06-14 13:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Ehm no.

Brewlar says that no longer created game content that select players were given which allows them to dominate and under cut new players is wrong and that said content should be removed from game.
It doesn't
Quote:
I have no problem with unique ships that I do not have access to as they can be destroyed. T2BPO however can not as it sits in a station locked yet somehow accessible to an entire corp (makes zero sense) same goes for all BPO's.
They can be stolen or destroyed easier than station queens
Quote:
I believe a fair nerf to T2BPO would be to allow them only to be used in WH or null SOV null sec which would at least offer the chance for these items to be removed from game by POS destruction, ship ganks or at least have their value smashed in a station capture. Another simple nerf would be to insure that their ME falls behind invention BPC's along with no longer being able to manufacture while locked in station.
That's idiotic
Quote:

For the love of EVE either remove T2BPO as it was ill thought game content that completely undermines EVE's principles. Simply knowing a dev or being in EVE at the start should not guarantee success and these are factors that epitomise T2BPO's.

Make EVE real remove T2BPO.


The BPOs introduced by Dev malfeasance were removed. Stop lying.
Older players will always have certain advantages. Make some Isk and you can have the same advantages for yourself.

*epitomize

T2BPOs make EvE more realistic due to surmountable unfairness being perfectly realistic.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#554 - 2012-06-14 13:34:17 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
... that completely undermines EVE's principles. Simply knowing a dev or being in EVE at the start should not guarantee success and these are factors that epitomise T2BPO's.

Make EVE real remove T2BPO.


So what exactly are the principles being violated?
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#555 - 2012-06-14 13:39:59 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Ehm no.

Brewlar says that no longer created game content that select players were given which allows them to dominate and under cut new players is wrong and that said content should be removed from game. I have no problem with unique ships that I do not have access to as they can be destroyed. T2BPO however can not as it sits in a station locked yet somehow accessible to an entire corp (makes zero sense) same goes for all BPO's. I believe a fair nerf to T2BPO would be to allow them only to be used in WH or null SOV null sec which would at least offer the chance for these items to be removed from game by POS destruction, ship ganks or at least have their value smashed in a station capture. Another simple nerf would be to insure that their ME falls behind invention BPC's along with no longer being able to manufacture while locked in station.

For the love of EVE either remove T2BPO as it was ill thought game content that completely undermines EVE's principles. Simply knowing a dev or being in EVE at the start should not guarantee success and these are factors that epitomise T2BPO's.

Make EVE real remove T2BPO.


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.

"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.


Are you not listening??


"The only markets where T2 BPO's have a significant impact are where there is little demand for the item." CCP Diagora, 5/3/2012.
Ore Bunny
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#556 - 2012-06-14 15:21:16 UTC
poor Brewlar ...seriously sad to readSadCry
Sen Roo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#557 - 2012-06-14 19:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sen Roo
Hey Brewlar? I hate to be the one to say this to you but you've gone way past the point of requesting something to the point of whining about it when you were told it wasn't gong to happen. It's gotten to the point that in my mind that Brewlar = one of those small and annoying dogs that yap all the time. Roll
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#558 - 2012-06-15 12:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Poor EVE seriously sad to see that such a lame item as T2BPO exists in an interesting and complex game, shame one or a small amount of Devs can have such a negative effect on the game. T2BPO's seriously do not belong in this game especially running alongside invention. Concepts such as T2BPO will insure this game never grows and attracts as many new players at is capable of without such lame ideas.

Good Dev <---- pay rise for these chaps. (Hint)
''Lets make an interesting crafting system called invention that has players compete in a capitalist competition of obtaining resources, combining resources, manufacturing a product then selling on a free and open market. This will be sure to attract new players to EVE who are excited by it's player driven economy.''

Bad Dev <---- Sack these ones. (Hint)
''Nope this idea is too great lets make it irrelevant in most lines of T2 by also having a game breaking item (T2BPO) that will see our chosen players succeed by enabling them to cut inventors out of all lines unless demand for line surpasses chosen players manufacturing ability. Lets make this item so powerful/valuable that our own staff will actually risk their jobs stealing said items from us and that our customers will be tempted to spend ridiculous amounts of real money in obtaining them. ''

(Out of curiosity which group of Devs did T20 belong too? I'd have to say the latter. My opinion that anyone dumb enough to support T2BPO is probably a big enough idiot to steal from their employer or do the DEVS at CCP seriously support invention running alongside T2BPO's? Because if that is the case I will have to create a new group to describe them.)

Terrible Devs.
''I acknowledge a problem exists with invention running alongside over powered T2BPO's but the the situation is too tiring to fix and you know effort, can't be bothered, lets make new clothes for AUR as it's easy.''

Hey why don't we have T3 BPO's? oh yeah T2BPO is ********. Remove them it was a mistake, CCP take responsibility for it and stop undermining a great concept 'invention' with an insta win button given to pet players. If you are desperate to keep T2BPO buff invention so far beyond them that they can no longer undercut inventors.

T2BPO is a knife stuck into the side of EVE slowly killing the game and CCP will wish they removed it at an earlier date when EVE and CCP finally kicks the bucket and subscriptions are no longer able to keep 3/4 staff in wages or keep the heating on at the head office. As less people buy T2 the BPO's power will only grow as demand for items drops below BPO supply rates making more and more invention lines unprofitable.

(You know that feeling you have, ''Oh if only we seen this problem coming when we made T2BPO's, if only they had stats that fell slightly short of invention in ME and we'd not even have this problem'' Well that feeling is only going to get stronger so cut your losses now and fix T2BPO.)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#559 - 2012-06-15 13:51:22 UTC
Time runs in one direction, Brewlar. T2 BPOs and Invention were created at different times.

You're ideas are idiotic, have already been debunked, and you're no longer bothering to reply to anyone else.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#560 - 2012-06-15 14:15:08 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
DEATH TO PIE!