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New Mining Frigate... Old Mining Barges... New Model?
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Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-06-14 16:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Orlok Raven wrote:
Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D


I see no reason to paint everything construction yellow though I agree the new ship looks good.

My only question is what will happen to the current role bonuses.. will they remain or go away.. (ex: mack inc mining bonus or the skiff for merxoit)

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Keeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-06-14 17:06:06 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Orlok Raven wrote:
Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D


I see no reason to paint everything construction yellow though I agree the new ship looks good.

My only question is what will happen to the current role bonuses.. will they remain or go away.. (ex: mack inc mining bonus or the skiff for merxoit)



they did fail to mention that, hopefully they do keep the current system, it works well
Grenn Putubi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-14 17:36:16 UTC
Keeryn wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Orlok Raven wrote:
Since that new Mining Frigate looks great and it has a beautiful industrial touch to it... Will CCP change the models on the Hulk for that same yellow variant model that the frigate has?? I think it is time miners got a new updated look since they will no longer be one shotted! =D


I see no reason to paint everything construction yellow though I agree the new ship looks good.

My only question is what will happen to the current role bonuses.. will they remain or go away.. (ex: mack inc mining bonus or the skiff for merxoit)



they did fail to mention that, hopefully they do keep the current system, it works well


Personally I'd love to see the role bonuses moved onto special enhanced mining modules that only exhumers could equip. That way we could get the role bonus we want with the amount of tank or yield we desire. They could change the role bonuses of all the exhumers to be 'can fit 1 enhanced mining module' and give the exhumers an extra mid or low slot to fit it in (can't use a hislot because then we'd have the option of fitting an extra laser instead and it could make things very complicated). I'd suggest a low slot for the module because exhumers don't have many of them to begin with and adding an extra low slot wouldn't give us very much for extra fitting options unless they radically altered the CPU/PG of the ships as well. At best it'd give us an extra slot for a cargo expander, a 3rd mining laser upgrade (would would likely be impossible to fit due to increased CPU costs), a CPU/PG upgrade (it'd make fitting strips with MLUs a bit easier on those with lower skills, but is that really such a bad thing?), or some extra armor tank modules (which are mostly useless on a shield tank ship anyhow). And to fit any of this extra stuff we'd be giving up the role bonus we'd get otherwise. The only downside to this would be that the Hulk doesn't currently have a role bonus so it'd be getting a buff by allowing it to use one of the modules, but with the incoming changes to barges and exhumers would that really be such a bad thing?
Keeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-06-14 17:51:53 UTC
the module idea is sound, but i don't think it would work in this situation, it takes away the need for the skiff and the mack all together
Baaa Shakiel
Kinnah Incorporated
#25 - 2012-06-14 18:13:01 UTC
As far as changes go, priority should always game balancing, utility first over skins. No one is going to fly a pretty ship so much as a D-scan Ping will pop it.

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Grenn Putubi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-06-14 18:28:26 UTC
Keeryn wrote:
the module idea is sound, but i don't think it would work in this situation, it takes away the need for the skiff and the mack all together


From the tone of the dev blog it sounds like they're more interested in making the Skiff and Mack into high tank/low yield ships when compared to the Hulk. Moving the role bonuses onto modules that any exhumer could use wouldn't make the Skiff or Mack obsolete, it'd just shift them from being the 'Mercoxit ship' and the 'Ice ship' to being the 'Best tank' ship and the 'Mid tank' ship and the ships would be more flexible about what to use where. If you're in a relatively safe area, then yes the Hulk would obviously be the ship of choice because of the greater yield. But if you're not confident in your safety, then being able to bring the tank you feel safe with and still get the role bonuses for Mercoxit or Ice would be a welcome change.
Abulurd Boniface
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-14 23:38:27 UTC
It is not my idea, but I wholly concur: the new mining frigate, a wonderful model, shall be named after one of New Eden's finest pilots: Chribba.

I like the idea of more resists for barges/exhumers. They've been the piñata long enough, it's time they had some more heft when it comes to standing up to destroyers. They have no weapons, they do not have speed, their tank is made of rice paper [unless we're talking tanked Hulk]. Hulkageddon is now permanent. Let's even the balance a little.

Industrials should get a boost too: T3 industrials.

- either you configure them to have a much larger ore/mineral hold only

- or you configure them to crush ore, Rorqual-style, though not on that scale, obviously

- or you configure them to be a mini-refinery in places where there is no refinery [say: a worm hole]

a new take on an old, and desperately in need of some love, concept. Industrials were going to have an industrial role. They don't have an industrial role, they're mini haulers. What part of hauling inventory from A to B is considered an industrial role?

The new mining frigate will be a wonderful asset to new miners who have yet to master the art of flying dedicated barges/exhumers.

I'm not in favor of reducing the distance from barges to exhumers [ie.: the Hulk] because the Hulk is supposed to be the quintessential mining vessel. If I can do 90% of what a Hulk does [if that is what CCP has in mind], where the Covetor costs 10% of the price of a Hulk, why would I put myself in the position of the juicier target flying a Hulk?

I appreciate CCP's continued additions to the spaceship eco system [with the new Destroyers too]. More tools, more options, more tactics and strategies, can only be applauded.
Grenn Putubi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-15 01:45:53 UTC
Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I'm not in favor of reducing the distance from barges to exhumers [ie.: the Hulk] because the Hulk is supposed to be the quintessential mining vessel'. If I can do 90% of what a Hulk does [if that is what CCP has in mind], where the Covetor costs 10% of the price of a Hulk, why would I put myself in the position of the juicier target flying a Hulk?


You've obviously got some misconceptions about the difference between a Covetor and a Hulk.

A Covetor CAN do 90% of what can Hulk can do. There are only a few major differences, 1 being the Hulk is better tanked, 2 being the Hulk has a much larger cargo bay, and 3 being that the Hulk gets a small bonus to yield. I say small bonus to yield because it's exactly that, small. At Exhumers 5 you're only getting an extra 15% yield over a Covetor, most people don't go to Exhumers 5, they stop at 4, so they're only getting an extra 12% yield over the Covetor. If you're confident you won't get ganked and have someone to haul for you the difference between a Hulk and a Covetor is negligible.

I can buy and fit a Cov for under 25mil, it costs 350mil just to buy a Hulk and you'll spend another 10mil on fittings. The cost vs benefit of a Hulk vs a Cov is tipped far in the Cov's favor unless you're expecting to get ganked, and even then the Cov has the benefit of being cheaper to replace even though it's far easier to gank. The best Hulk tank I know of barely crosses the 40k ehp mark, a Cov hits about 9-10k ehp, so against a dedicated gank attempt you're going to lose either ship. The Cov being far cheaper to replace is more than likely the ship of choice.

The only reason I fly a Hulk is that it can withstand a random gank attempt by 1 or 2 players in hisec. I don't fly it for the yield, because in the tank fit I can't use MLUs and it loses 4k ehp if I'm using T2 strips with crystals and the Cov will end up with a better yield because you don't bother putting a tank on it. And when I mine in low and nulsec I fly a Cov because I expect to get targetted and I know Concord isn't going to save me, and chances are my fleet isn't going to be able to kill anyone willing to attempt the gank before they finish me off.

If they do as they say in the devblog, the Skiff will end up with a BS sized tank. That's 100k ehp, I'll guess the Mack will end up around 60-70k ehp, and the Hulk will likely stay where it is at 30-40k ehp. If that's what they have planned then I'll gladdly fly a Mack in low and nulsec because the tank/yield will be a nice balance and with that much ehp my fleet may be able to save me.
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