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safe mining
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Suqq Madiq
#21 - 2012-06-11 18:09:43 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Rokh's are a pretty good way to out-mine a Covetor and have near the EHP of an Orca.


Except they don't out-mine a Covetor, especially not with any kind of tank on it. You can match a Covetor's yield in a Rokh by fitting zero tank, but then you're having to micro-manage your Mining Lasers and jettisoning ore every couple minutes so your yield doesn't over-fill the Rokh's puny cargohold. Mining in a Rokh is horrid.


A Rokh fitting 4 MLUIIs has 4 times the tank of a Tanked Covetor (with no MLUs).
Fit 3 MLUs and you'll be in the 130k EHP range.
Fit 5 MLUs (one Aeode) and you'll still have 40k EHP, and you'll outmine a 2 MLU Covetor (I think, can't check atm).

The new CPU rigs allowed both the Covetor and the Rokh to fit an extra MLU at the cost of tank


None of this demonstrates or addresses the various reasons for which Rokh is awful at mining. You could hull tank on a Covetor with damage drones and a warp disruptor in the mids and call it a battle ship, but it's still a mining vessel trying to be something it's not, and very terribly at that.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#22 - 2012-06-11 22:31:26 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Rokh's are a pretty good way to out-mine a Covetor and have near the EHP of an Orca.


Except they don't out-mine a Covetor, especially not with any kind of tank on it. You can match a Covetor's yield in a Rokh by fitting zero tank, but then you're having to micro-manage your Mining Lasers and jettisoning ore every couple minutes so your yield doesn't over-fill the Rokh's puny cargohold. Mining in a Rokh is horrid.


A Rokh fitting 4 MLUIIs has 4 times the tank of a Tanked Covetor (with no MLUs).
Fit 3 MLUs and you'll be in the 130k EHP range.
Fit 5 MLUs (one Aeode) and you'll still have 40k EHP, and you'll outmine a 2 MLU Covetor (I think, can't check atm).

The new CPU rigs allowed both the Covetor and the Rokh to fit an extra MLU at the cost of tank


None of this demonstrates or addresses the various reasons for which Rokh is awful at mining. You could hull tank on a Covetor with damage drones and a warp disruptor in the mids and call it a battle ship, but it's still a mining vessel trying to be something it's not, and very terribly at that.


The Rokh is better than the Apoc, and the Apoc was just fine for the first 18 months of the game.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#23 - 2012-06-11 22:32:00 UTC
Silvrsurfr wrote:
aligning with engines idle


You're not aligned.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#24 - 2012-06-12 20:53:27 UTC
What’s the best solo tank for a Hulk anyone’s come up with?

[Low]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

[Mids]
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I x 3
Small Shield Extender

[High]
Modulated Strip Miner II

[Rigs]
Medium Defense Core Field Extender I x 3

In EFT it says that setup gives me about 27k EHP, but when I fit it on the test server, I get 21k. Any ideas on the discrepancy?

I could get more EHP I suppose if I tried fitting faction/officer gear, but Hulks are already expensive enough without making me a juicer target.

And how effective is 21k-27k EHP anyways? What kind of DPS can you get out of a Catalyst?

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#25 - 2012-06-13 01:23:59 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
What’s the best solo tank for a Hulk anyone’s come up with?

[Low]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

[Mids]
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I x 3
Small Shield Extender

[High]
Modulated Strip Miner II

[Rigs]
Medium Defense Core Field Extender I x 3

In EFT it says that setup gives me about 27k EHP, but when I fit it on the test server, I get 21k. Any ideas on the discrepancy?

I could get more EHP I suppose if I tried fitting faction/officer gear, but Hulks are already expensive enough without making me a juicer target.

And how effective is 21k-27k EHP anyways? What kind of DPS can you get out of a Catalyst?


EFT may be using a different damage pattern or different skills.

Use your lows to shoehorn an MSE of some flavor on. Fit resists against Kin/Therm to protect against AM/Void Blaster ammo.
Fit up a gank catalyst to figure out what damage they do.

You can get around 30k omni-36vs blasters pretty easy.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#26 - 2012-06-13 03:03:35 UTC
Mine aligned (ie moving, stupid "passive" concept) and you will survive almost everything. You can warp off before anyone could exit warp.
Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2012-06-13 03:23:57 UTC
If miners have to result to BS mining again then there is no point for Mining Barges or Exhumers. The mining ships were made to fill a void where there was a niche for such a ship. It worked very well until recent iterations including the addition of tier 3 BC, destroyers without a penalty, and the hybrid buff. Since suicide ganking is now the norm, either concord responses need to change or players need new modules or bonuses on their ships to prevent easy ganking.

In the long run, manufacturers, inventors, traders and entrepreneurs need a thriving mineral market based out of hi-sec to make the professions interesting to newcomers. Otherwise, excessive minerals are being poured into 0.0 through compression and the null consortium while empire producers suffer and have a reduced incentive to act.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#28 - 2012-06-13 03:34:11 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:
If miners have to result to BS mining again then there is no point for Mining Barges or Exhumers. The mining ships were made to fill a void where there was a niche for such a ship. It worked very well until recent iterations including the addition of tier 3 BC, destroyers without a penalty, and the hybrid buff. Since suicide ganking is now the norm, either concord responses need to change or players need new modules or bonuses on their ships to prevent easy ganking.

In the long run, manufacturers, inventors, traders and entrepreneurs need a thriving mineral market based out of hi-sec to make the professions interesting to newcomers. Otherwise, excessive minerals are being poured into 0.0 through compression and the null consortium while empire producers suffer and have a reduced incentive to act.


If PvPers have to result to Dessie ganking again then ther is no point for Thoraxes or Brutixes. The blaster boats were made to fill a void where there was a niche for such a ship.


Solo Ganking a Hulk (with some semblance of tank) is more expensive now than it was before the Dessie/Hybrid buff.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-06-13 11:23:43 UTC
fly into deep nulsec on SISI server...

they'll never find you then

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#30 - 2012-06-13 14:58:24 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
What’s the best solo tank for a Hulk anyone’s come up with?

[Low]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

[Mids]
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I x 3
Small Shield Extender

[High]
Modulated Strip Miner II

[Rigs]
Medium Defense Core Field Extender I x 3

In EFT it says that setup gives me about 27k EHP, but when I fit it on the test server, I get 21k. Any ideas on the discrepancy?

I could get more EHP I suppose if I tried fitting faction/officer gear, but Hulks are already expensive enough without making me a juicer target.

And how effective is 21k-27k EHP anyways? What kind of DPS can you get out of a Catalyst?


See my previous reply on page one for a longer explanation of what you should do. By the way the Hulk only has two rig slots - not three. I haven't used the EFT but I have read numerous comments that you can't trust the figures that EFT puts out.

The last time I was victim to a suicide gank attempt by a solo catalyst I had a bit over 9k EHP and was brought into structure before Concord took them to hell. Then I collected a load of T2 fittings etc from his wreck. A bit stressful but a good result....for me anyway. Blink If a number of destroyers/'disco's' or a T3 battlecruiser turn up and you havent realised beforehand then you are going to be toast no matter how much tank is on your Hulk. Prevention is far better than cure so aim to move system or dock up before they attack/as they enter system.

Personally I don't think you want to give up too much yield in favour of tank but it's your call.I suggest something along the following lines:
T2 Damage Control
T2 MLU

T2 Survey Scanner
T2 Invulnerability Field x2

T2 Strip Miner x3

T1 EM Shield Rig (Not correct item name)
T1 Thermal Shield Rig (Not correct item name)

That's about 18.6k I think while mining with a 'linky Orca'
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-06-14 03:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cedo Nulli
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Rokh's are a pretty good way to out-mine a Covetor and have near the EHP of an Orca.


For what that Rokh cost you can buy several covetors, so not a great solution.

Katja speeks the truth



I heard you can sell the ship after you dont need it anymore. Stop shopping at the "Bind on pickup" store.
Xeniris Madison
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-06-14 04:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeniris Madison
You want to be safer in hostile environnement? But your ship is too weak and you don't want to tank it for less profit?

So make like the weak person that have big load of money in RL : use f*cking body guards.

1. Create an alt account.
2. Train your alt to fly an Orca (<= the body guard).
3. Fit the Orca with full tank module (+300k EHP with decent tank)
4. Board a BC that your main character can fly (like a Drake or whatever) in the ship maintenance array of the Orca.
5. Fleet your alt, go in belts with him, keep range within 1000m of the Orca, turn on the tank modules of your alt, open corporate hangar AND ship maintenance array of the Orca with your main character and make your life of miner.

[Gankers pop in the belt]

6. Stop your cycles and drag the minerals in the Orca or eject it.
7. Open the ship maintenance array of the Orca to see the BC into it.
8. Wait for the ganker hit you at least once (very important for the last step). Proceed the 9th step immediatly after.
9. Right click on the BC and click on "Board ship" <== This process will store the Hulk in place of the BC and in exchange you will board automaticaly in the BC in 0.5sec. Summary, that's a swap of ships
10. Watch the ganker go poof by CONCORD. (9th step again to return in the Hulk)


You can now have a max yield Hulk fitting, loose less exhumers, make more profit (buy PLEX for your new alt with this).

If you have problems again while using that technic like loosing several Hulks or worst ... the Orca, please unsub and blame yourself to being a r'tard.
Xeniris Madison
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-06-14 04:59:11 UTC
*
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-14 09:38:12 UTC
Xeniris Madison wrote:
*

i agree

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
servellious
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-14 14:31:05 UTC
D3F4ULT wrote:
No mining barge will warp fast enough. Simply put, you're game and you're being hunted. By being in space you're a target no matter where you are.

Hints why they always say "Null sec is safer" It truly is with the right alliance, intel channel up, and watching local. I can mine all day without a single problem and do as I like all within 2 systems. If I need anything taken up to trade I use the Alliance JF service by assigning a Courier contract and paying for it.

It's a lot more simple and easier than scratching at your neck and looking over your shoulder wondering if today is the day you go boom in highsec where you're making less than me :P



Hmmm ...... is this whole thing a way to get more members for goon?
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