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Warfare & Tactics

 
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The New War Mechanics: - 1

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DurrDurrDurr
Upvote
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2012-06-05 14:26:16 UTC
There's a PL dude who is an allied defender in almost 600 wardecs right now.

The ally system is broken; there are too many people jumping onto every wardec bandwagon they can find for free.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#22 - 2012-06-13 05:30:22 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Red Teufel wrote:
You can't dec a corp without him possibly mustering friends to kill you now? well damn.

That's not actually what happens, no actual friends are involved, just 20 random corps like mine who are out to cause as much difficulty for people as possible. It's a bad system that functionally allows the defender have an infinite number of corps wardec the attacker for free and as an attacker you have literally no means to respond to it.

It makes declaring war in the first place tantamount to suicide for any corp or alliance that isn't a dedicated highsec wardec corp. It's made wars over legitimate grievances between similar types of corps totally impossible as the defender can for no cost get people like Moar Tears, God Squad and The 0rphanage involved without having to pay a single isk. It's just not a viable tool for anyone who isn't completely geared towards constant war against people who outnumber them.

Wars between random generic highsec corps did used to happen, they weren't super common but they did exist, now they don't and wars are completely the realm of dedicated wardec corps.

CCP had claimed that they wanted to change wardecs from something that was used almost exclusively for mutual wars and griefing into a more utilized system that actually had utility for the general population of highsec, but the new system has had the exact opposite effect because why would you pay money to declare war on someone who can then infinitely escalate the war in the favor for no cost while you have no way to respond to it at all? How many highsec corps would actually want to put themselves in that situation?

The patch notes are just a laundry lists of reasons not to declare war.


well those are the risks. if you want to wardec shouldn't you want more targets anyways? and you can always surrendur or disband?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#23 - 2012-06-14 09:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
There should definitely be a limiting factor on the number of allies (max number of allies a defender can have, max number of people you can become allies with, isk cost that rises with the number of allies, or something), or barring that the aggressors should be allowed to escalate with their own allies (again with a limiting factor, maybe one aggressor ally per two defender allies). As far as justifying it goes, I see it as a "the enemy of my enemy" kind of thing, so if corp x becomes an ally of a defender in a war, then enemies of corp x may decide to ally with the aggressor
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-06-14 12:24:20 UTC
DurrDurrDurr wrote:
There's a PL dude who is an allied defender in almost 600 wardecs right now.

The ally system is broken; there are too many people jumping onto every wardec bandwagon they can find for free.

What's wrong with that? these guys decided they wanted to go to war, they just got one more enemy than they planned.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
#25 - 2012-06-14 21:06:23 UTC
High PVP is about targets, more allies = more targets.

How is it a bad thing?

The unlimited allied system is working as intended.

Now you have the ability to pvp with more people. And the defenders receive protection.

Everyone is happy.

Like I say: Working as Intended.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#26 - 2012-06-16 21:55:53 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:
High PVP is about targets, more allies = more targets.

How is it a bad thing?

The unlimited allied system is working as intended.

Now you have the ability to pvp with more people. And the defenders receive protection.

Everyone is happy.

Like I say: Working as Intended.


I agree. war is war. and if peeps don't like it hell vote for making all of eve 0.0
Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-18 14:22:00 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
I agree. war is war. and if peeps don't like it hell vote for making all of eve 0.0


and then ALL of eve can stay posed up or docked up, shitting they're pants while i stay cloaked up in that system. huzzah, fine with me
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-06-19 11:53:19 UTC
It does seem to have some foul mechanics to it but it is better than what we had before - for those who couldn't fight wars well.

I still recall having it explained and the first thing went through my mind is that hub campers will love this. No more wardec fees, simply piggy back on anyone who's been wardec'd and you can get plenty of targets for no cost.

That is a problem mechanic too - A corp gets wardec'd and allows for assistance. They then wardec the aggressors OOC RR/idny corp which those who helped them now assist. So you have a group supposedly helping you who is also now a hostile - at the same time and this is legitimate/legal. /boggle

It does remove some of the tactical side of things that used to be handy and it also hurts the mercs though that's not as big an issue as messed up mechanics.

I'd guess it needs some checks and balances added to it but I sure as hell do find it better than what we had before, just not quite right yet.

Maybe some game-based fees for accepting help, limits on those that can help - how many they are allowed to hep blocking of offers to different groups if they conflict or the like... Some stuff adjusted but that is a CCP style thing to look at.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#29 - 2012-06-23 14:18:59 UTC
What the hell is anyone doing in highsec anyway? Unless you're a total noob, staying there is pretty lame.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-06-23 21:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
With the exception of MemranBlink, all of you, every last one of you, are either bias, bored or strait up chicken ****.



God forbid that CCP and the CSM's band together to formulate a meaningful wardec system that does not support griefing, that does not kill the merc side of the game, that does not support the agendas of aggressors or defenders... you know, a system that is just GOOD GAMING?? You are all so tied up in what you want, that you do not bother to look at the big picture from a purely developmental standpoint.


Arrow The wardec system that we had sucked.
Arrow This version sucks.
Arrow The plans they have in the next expansion (from what I heard so far) will not change either of these facts.



So what is the point arguing about it? For years the lone griefer got what they wanted, and now the nooblet mission runners are getting what they want instead. And all the while Eve Online becomes more and more like every other MMORPG on the internet. But the only people who are aware of it are the old timers who barely log in anymore. So meh.

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Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-06-25 16:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Memran wrote:
I agree that the new war system is not a good idea at all.

We basically have 2 main situations:
1) Agressor declares war, and the defenders stay docked.
2) Defenders begin collecting lots and lots of allies, and teh agressors stay docked.

Maybe there should be a limit to the number of allies?
Maybe there should be some increasing cost to the defender with each additional ally?
RR needs fixing. (No 'maybe' here...)

I don't know how to get fun fights these days. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.


If I were a dev, my take on this would be something like;

Aggressor Declares war
Defender can now bring in 1 ally with no wardec fees
For every free ally which the defender brings in, the attacker can also bring in a free ally
Doing this allows the defender to have another free ally
So on as the conflict escalates larger and larger.

*Note: "Allies" on one side can attack all the "allies" on the other side, not just the target corp.

If the attackers want to bring in allies without the defenders having first brought in allies, then they must pay CONCORD the wardec fee again for every additional ally. Similarly, if the defenders want to bring in an ally so that they would have 2+ more allies than the attacker, they would also need to start paying wardec fees.

Also, for the RR - ships which provide remote assistance to other ships that are engaged in combat should be subject to the same 1 minute docking/jumping timer, enabling them to actually get killed instead of just redocking, undocking, and repping some more.
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