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Suggestions to increase EVE player base.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#61 - 2012-06-13 23:45:11 UTC
Quote:
I actually prefer things to take a little longer...


I prefer them to be end user skill based.

But then that's why chess online isn't very popular. The average person would loose consistently.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc.
#62 - 2012-06-13 23:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph Dreadloch
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Actually I was making the argument that if you are want more subscribers, look at what people that have much more success than you are doing and incorporate some of their features into your product. Its what every successful company has ever done.


You're asking for EVE to go the way of SWG.

Abandon the niche market, adopt conventional generic game-play, lose everything.

And your comparison of 'I had to go through it, so should you' to sexual assault is in poor taste. Its more like college or university. I'd be quite angry if my coworker was hired out of grade-school and made the same wages as I did. Those of you shitting on this argument don't seem to comprehend the idea of a right of passage.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#63 - 2012-06-13 23:46:18 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Actually I was making the argument that if you are want more subscribers, look at what people that have much more success than you are doing and incorporate some of their features into your product. Its what every successful company has ever done.
You mean like what all those WoW-clones have tied to do? You know… all those AAA-tier MMO launches that sputtered and failed?

No, that is not necessarily the road to success.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-06-13 23:48:08 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
I actually prefer things to take a little longer...


I prefer them to be end user skill based.

But then that's why chess online isn't very popular. The average person would loose consistently.


Welcome back Cipher. Haven't seen you in a bit.

EVE already depends on end user skill. Here's a direct PVP example:

Get a rifter and fit it for pvp. Go to a fight and press orbit and fire at the target. You'll probably lose.

Get the same rifter and manually fly and kite and micro manage thermodynamics and all that crap and you'll kick the butt of the person who chose option 1.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-06-13 23:48:35 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Arkanus Shun wrote:



I was a part of that hardcore market and made the same statements, as to "If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?"

You and everyone know that is wrong the moment you think it.

Someone gets raped... "If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?"

Someone gets shot.... "If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?"

etc etc etc. Its a childs argument, that I myself have made at an earlier date, but it is not an argument that holds water in the long run.

I personally think the, "everyone else is doing it this way, you should too" arguement isn't childish, it's moronic.

I think that arguement is the staple of people with little intelligence, imagination, or creativety.
Isn't that the arguement you're making?


Actually I was making the argument that if you are want more subscribers, look at what people that have much more success than you are doing and incorporate some of their features into your product. Its what every successful company has ever done.


Like I said.

Little intelligence, imagination, or creativety.

That was a really smart responce you made.
Abannan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-06-13 23:51:19 UTC
You seem like the kind of person that would cry about being entitled to mine if he wanted to, if his hulk was esploded.

Any wealth you have attained during your time with us here on Eve online, please contract to Abannan.

Thankyou
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#67 - 2012-06-13 23:51:22 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Quote:
The arcade is down the street, take a left two blocks down.


Quote:
You know, stuff like this holds more water if you post with a character that isn't just five days old. Why? Because in five days you *cannot* hope to have a grasp on the game, and you are even less qualified to start asking for changes in long standing game mechanics than you are justified in voicing your dislike for them this early on.

Play the game for yourself for a few weeks. No, don't just sit holed up in station training skills you think you need. You're new, go explore already, and get to grips with the universe before you develop shut-in *Can't afford to lose x because of y* syndrome.



Hence a subscriber base of 300k, rather than millions.


Let it be noted ahead of time that this, here, is proof I tried to be rational and give good solid advice without sounding like I'm spewing hateful bile and waxing my own ego with large columns of text.

And now, with that said, I'm going to take a fine tooth comb to your post and come back to you with the results as to why you're coming off as a clueless fool who has no patience nor willingness to accept things are not how you personally want them to be perhaps for good reason. Cheerio.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Yuriko Deathstrike
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-06-13 23:54:55 UTC
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
Heres an honest response for you instead of rage.

EVE Online came out in 2003 when the MMO market was nearly non-existant and the gaming world was much more 'hardcore' in general. The gaming and MMO markets since then have inflated MASSIVELY and other MMO's have managed to appeal to the casual players by giving instant gratification, and drop-in drop-out content.

This cannot ever happen in EVE online, if CCP changed the game model to adapt to the current ADHD stricken casual playerbase of the modern MMO/Gaming market today, they'll completely screw over their existing customers and will have made the years that their dedicated 'hardcore' playerbase have invested completely wasted, in order to appeal to a larger casual audience.

CCP have nobly chosen to remain loyal to its playerbase so far and continue to produce content that appeals to its own 'hardcore' niche. I for one will leave this game and never look back if it gets too dulled down and the entry level is lowered too much. If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?


I agree, I think this is what happened to SWG (from what i've read). In pre-CU SWG used to have no levels just skill points that you assigned, and anyone could make any spec that they wanted. Then one day they introduced levels, killed off a bunch of specs because of the skill realignment and did a bunch of changes. I dont know what the devs reasons for the changes were, but it sounded like they were trying to appeal to the crowd Joseph is talking about. The crowd that has only ever played WoW, is lacking in attention span, and demands instant gratification. Because of the changes SWG lost a lot of its old playerbase.

You make major changes like that here, you are probably gonna lose a bunch of your subs that have been here for years and years. And in exchange you will get someone who plays for a few months or a year, gets bored and goes back to WoW. I'm about 3 years younger then the OP, have played WoW since 06, and have been playing FPS, RTS, RPG, and sims since i was in my teens. But i was able to adapt to the EVE skill system, its gameplay and how your items are treated in the game (expendable).

TLDR eve online is working as intended, and this is coming from a 45 day old eve player but new players need to adapt and HTFU
Maledictum Aideron
In Praise of Bacchus
#69 - 2012-06-13 23:56:49 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Arkanus Shun wrote:



I was a part of that hardcore market and made the same statements, as to "If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?"

You and everyone know that is wrong the moment you think it.

Someone gets raped... "If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?"

Someone gets shot.... "If I had to go through it... why shouldn't everyone else?"

etc etc etc. Its a childs argument, that I myself have made at an earlier date, but it is not an argument that holds water in the long run.

I personally think the, "everyone else is doing it this way, you should too" arguement isn't childish, it's moronic.

I think that arguement is the staple of people with little intelligence, imagination, or creativety.
Isn't that the arguement you're making?


Actually I was making the argument that if you are want more subscribers, look at what people that have much more success than you are doing and incorporate some of their features into your product. Its what every successful company has ever done.


You must be new here. We get features all the time and most of them are completely acci - introduced with regular updates that add value and content to our EVE Experience.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#70 - 2012-06-14 00:02:03 UTC
For me it took just 7 years and like 6 trial attempts to subscribe. Game is slow, complicated, "new player ufriendly" and I'm sure it will stay like this forever.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#71 - 2012-06-14 00:08:22 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
1) First the game has almost no variety in station styles. Going from one sector to the next I see the exact same station style everywhere. It is great that there are alot of standard functions within these stations but the graphics themselves are boring because of it, and very repetative.



Perhaps if you realised that different nations have different aesthetic designs, you would realise how daft your complaint is. Heck, even stations within the same solar systems generally have different designs.


Arkanus Shun wrote:
I have money. I have patience.......I stopped playing again after jumping around for 20 minutes



Do you see how illogical that looks? One minute you say you have patience, and in the next breath you say you jump around for only 20 minutes and then give up. That does not seem like patience to me.


Arkanus Shun wrote:
I have over 500 hours into X3TC



And I have over 5900 hours in EVE. I also have a naturally short attention span, so CCP must be doing something right.


Arkanus Shun wrote:
If you honestly want more money, you have to actually value your customers, and their time. I will not wait 30 minutes for food in a restaurant. I will not wait 5 days for delivery of a purchased CAR. Yet here, in a game, I am supposed to wait for a virtual item to be created that in reality takes a nanosecond to create in game. No, sorry.


EVE is and always has been a game about patience and long term planning, something that should be clear in a very short space of time, especially if (as you claim you did) people take the time beforehand to research the game. EVE is not about instant gratification, and nor will it ever be. This is not an arcade game, nor is it a pick up/ put down console game, EVE is something you are either in for the long haul, or not at all.


Arkanus Shun wrote:
The fundamental game play does not need to change as well


The things you are complaining about ARE considered a fundamental part of gameplay.


All in all EVE clearly is not the game for you. It has nothing to do with the way EVE works, because as others have pointed out, it has been growing steadily for 9 years now, and in fairness it is not your fault either. You just don't have the patience that being an EVE player requires.

Good luck with whatever game you end up with, it's a shame you are going to miss out on this one.


"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Flakey Foont
#72 - 2012-06-14 00:09:57 UTC
Look bub, the game is slow and hard for a reason. It weeds out the pseudo types who want it all now. Every game does not have to please you. And don't start with the "I know how to get more people" crap. Justin Beiber gets bigger audiences then Wynton Marsalis.

You are hoi-polloi, go play with same.
Arkanus Shun
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2012-06-14 00:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkanus Shun
Flakey Foont wrote:
Look bub, the game is slow and hard for a reason. It weeds out the pseudo types who want it all now. Every game does not have to please you. And don't start with the "I know how to get more people" crap. Justin Beiber gets bigger audiences then Wynton Marsalis.

You are hoi-polloi, go play with same.



I knew the responses would be like this, though my intention was not to troll, i just figured my opinion would be unpopular with people that have become conditioned to the slowness of this game.

My suggestion was not to annoy anyone, but be constructive in letting newer players be introduced at a rate they would be comfortable with, but "you have convinced me.... you have finally convinced me." EVE is not new player friendly, and does not want to be, nor ever will be.

Congrats.
Dakeen Kurvora
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-06-14 00:21:15 UTC
I hate the title "hardcore" seems to encourage what would be considered rude behavior in any other social setting. Though, since this is all "pretend" or "a game" it becomes acceptable in the minds of many. This tends to be in the issue with PVP games that tote a "hardcore" tag. It is possible to kill each other without holding hands and still be civil.


Biggest issue with these "niche" titles generally isn't the mechanics, it's the people. Give people to much freedom and they will cause chaos.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#75 - 2012-06-14 00:23:12 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Flakey Foont wrote:
Look bub, the game is slow and hard for a reason. It weeds out the pseudo types who want it all now. Every game does not have to please you. And don't start with the "I know how to get more people" crap. Justin Beiber gets bigger audiences then Wynton Marsalis.

You are hoi-polloi, go play with same.



I knew the responses would be like this, though my intention was not to troll, i just figured my opinion would be unpopular with people that have become conditioned to the slowness of this game.

My suggestion was not to annoy anyone, but be constructive in letting newer players be introduced at a rate they would be comfortable with, but "you have convinced me.... you have finally convinced me." EVE is not new player friendly, and does not want to be, nor ever will be.

Congrats.



You say you don't want to annoy people, nor troll, yet you make inflammatory remarks such as "people have become conditioned to the slowness of the game" as if we are somehow sheep that have been brainwashed. We haven't, we just know how to appreciate something that takes time and effort.

Then you pretend to know how best to bring in new players, the problem is that the kind of people you feel comfortable with and would bring in to this game, are precisely the sort of people who wouldn't want to play EVE. They would then cry and demand that things be made even easier, until eventually we are left with SWG or WoW. No thanks.

Finally you assume that EVE is not, nor ever will be, new player friendly. I would suggest that the fact that EVE is still showing steady growth after 9 years proves your statement to be baseless and without merit. EVE just is not friendly to people like you, that's all. It's nothing personal, so don't make it that way.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc.
#76 - 2012-06-14 00:23:23 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
my intention was not to troll, i just figured my opinion would be unpopular with people that have become conditioned to the slowness of this game.

My suggestion was not to annoy anyone, but be constructive in letting newer players be introduced at a rate they would be comfortable with, but "you have convinced me.... you have finally convinced me." EVE is not new player friendly, and does not want to be, nor ever will be.

Congrats.


If your intention was not to troll, perhaps you should not have trolled. EVE is friendly to new players, but only to certain new players.

EVE is chess, you're looking for checkers.
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-06-14 00:29:51 UTC
Arkanus Shun wrote:
Actually I was making the argument that if you are want more subscribers, look at what people that have much more success than you are doing and incorporate some of their features into your product. Its what every successful company has ever done.


Consider CCP as Bugatti and EVE as a Veyron.

You're suggesting they turn EVE into an Accord, because Honda sells more cars.

Success!
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-06-14 00:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ModeratedToSilence
Arkanus Shun wrote:
some terrible stuff that displayed ignorance of:
1. Eve Online
2. CCP
3. Science Fiction MMOs
4. Long term game development


Eve is special because Eve is so different from the rest of the market. It is the game that caters for the people who want to drive classic cars everyday. It is not for ordinary people. Not every one wants to drive a Mustang it will never be as common as a Honda Accord, that does not mean Mustangs should remake their image to match an Accord.

Your whole post implies that CCP and Eve Online are somehow failing, the very philosophy behind the corporate dumbness you spout forth is the only thing that has got CCP into difficulties over the last 9 years. The fact that 12 months after the Incarna fiasco you come in here espousing the same failings as the way forward shows how ignorant you are.

Your world view is why America's retail is dominated by Mega malls that have no character and no soul. Eve is not the place for you.
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-06-14 01:01:28 UTC
Just because the newer so-called MMO's are moving toward a crappy instant gratification model does not mean everything should follow. WoW came on the scene and slowly turned the MMO world into ... something else.

Also, you don't need millions of subs to be successful. That is the kind of horrid MBA thinking that ruins all companies eventually.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#80 - 2012-06-14 01:03:32 UTC
The op shows the glaring problem with today's society...instant gratification. The most rewarding things in life are ones that take hard work, dedication, and patience.

Man up or gtfo.

No trolling please