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GRIEFERS
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#181 - 2012-06-13 21:27:47 UTC
Arsala wrote:
Ioci wrote:
CCP don't call it 'griefing' but a duck is a duck and we all know better.



CCP is not the authoritative figure on who defines griefing or harassment which griefing is. And harassment is a serious matter.

You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court.



CCP is the authority on what griefing is in their game. Harassment is a bannable (and strictly defined) offense in EvE.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#182 - 2012-06-13 21:32:55 UTC
Arsala wrote:
this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court.

Shocked
That is just so much stupid condensed into one post I'm not sure my mind can even comprehend it fully...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2012-06-13 21:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ModeratedToSilence
Arsala is a great name to say out loud.

It is a fitting the opinions put forward by the above said Arsala (and incorrectly presented as facts from an authoritative source) are pretty much summed up by pronouncing the characters name aloud.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2012-06-13 22:30:52 UTC
Arsala wrote:
CCP is not the authoritative figure on who defines griefing or harassment which griefing is. And harassment is a serious matter.

Yes, they are. What would be griefing/harassment in other games (stealing from someone, ganking them, etc) is normal in EVE. If you think stealing from someone or ganking them, even in hisec, is griefing/harassment, unless it's singling out a single person and only a single person, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Arsala wrote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

This means you can't go after a specific person and be abusive, repeatedly, whether it be a player or an authorized representative of CCP.

Notice how they list up things like petitioning with false information, sending excessive e-mails, eve-mails, petitions, hindering CCP employees from doing their jobs, etc etc etc etc etc. Not a single aspect of this implies that ganking a single person once, or even ganking the same person multiple times if the person doesn't learn what he did to put himself in the crosshairs the first time. Like, for example, flying an untanked hulk or flying a ship with a very valuable cargo.

Arsala wrote:
You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

Notice how all of this is handling the topic of language, and how it's prohibiting abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language, and how obscuring the words through misspelling won't help.

Arsala wrote:
this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court.

I can only hope you're not a defense lawyer, because that assumption is so wrong on oh so many levels it's not even funny.

When a legalese text says language, it means language. Shooting someone, no matter how hard you wish it to be, isn't language. Nor is shooting someone once harassment, abuse, hateful etc etc etc. In fact, shooting someone multiple times isn't necessarily harassment, abuse, hateful etcetcetc either, unless the intent behind said action is to harass, abuse, hate on etc etc etc a single individual. Which means, shooting someone because they're dumb enough to f.ex run the same route with an overly expensive cargo, repeatedly, or because they're doing anything in an expensive ship which can yield a profit by shooting, isn't breaking the EULA. It's only when you go after someone, repeatedly, and over a prolonged time with the explicit intent to harass, abuse or hate on that specific individual that it becomes a problem which is petitionable under the EULA.

So suck it up.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#185 - 2012-06-13 22:43:08 UTC
Phill Esteen wrote:
Hey ccp you need to do something about these whiners whining about getting ganked in general discussion, its taking away the more sophisticated trolling .
general discussion is suppose to be a place where we post about sunglasses raytracing and ccp/goon/nwo/illuminati conspiracies and not a forum where we have to listen to miners whine. No i understand if we were in crime & punishment yea then by all means post away but crying us general discussion is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the threads locked for spam. I have had enough. if i see one more thread about griefing i will unsub my accounts, that will be 30,000 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these posters. ty.


Did it before I could ever do better.

/thread
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2012-06-13 22:44:40 UTC
Riiekus wrote:
Hey ccp you need to do something about these griefers ganking hulks and mackinaws in ice and ore belts, its taking away the game play .
high sec is suppose to be a safe zone not a worry about whether or not im going to get ganked while trying to mine for my corp. No i understand if we were in low or null sec mining away yea then by all means gank away but griefing us in high sec is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the alpha strikers at the gates. I have had enough. if i lose one more ship due to griefers i will quit this game, that will be 30 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these griefers. ty.

Riiekus.


/emote fires up locator agent...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#187 - 2012-06-13 23:00:45 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Riiekus wrote:
Hey ccp you need to do something about these griefers ganking hulks and mackinaws in ice and ore belts, its taking away the game play .
high sec is suppose to be a safe zone not a worry about whether or not im going to get ganked while trying to mine for my corp. No i understand if we were in low or null sec mining away yea then by all means gank away but griefing us in high sec is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the alpha strikers at the gates. I have had enough. if i lose one more ship due to griefers i will quit this game, that will be 30 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these griefers. ty.

Riiekus.


/emote fires up locator agent...

Don't - he threatened to UNSUB...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#188 - 2012-06-13 23:36:02 UTC
Riiekus wrote:
Hey ccp you need to do something about these griefers ganking hulks and mackinaws in ice and ore belts, its taking away the game play .
high sec is suppose to be a safe zone not a worry about whether or not im going to get ganked while trying to mine for my corp. No i understand if we were in low or null sec mining away yea then by all means gank away but griefing us in high sec is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the alpha strikers at the gates. I have had enough. if i lose one more ship due to griefers i will quit this game, that will be 30 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these griefers. ty.

Riiekus.


****** troll or confused idiot. No sure which.

High sec is suppose to be safe derp.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Arsala
Minmatar Mining and Manufacturing.
#189 - 2012-06-13 23:37:04 UTC
ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.

Many here disagree with an opinion that differs from there own, thats perfectly ok. As it is different I expect some resistance to it. But an environment where a corporation is paying others to do the harass a singled out group of individuals based on a specified criteria over and over is the same as one person getting harassed by another over and over ... either way its harassment. when a specif group of people are the minority and the majority claims no foul is committed chances are good that the majority is just not wanting to admit they are wrong. This is why civil rights in RL have always been so hard to get for minorities.

CPP is responsible for the environment and atmosphere in which we play, the fact that individuals can make and promote an environment where harassment takes place and is actively encouraged is most likely the lack of monitoring on CCP's part and I am sure that once there made aware of it they will move to fix it.

Indies are the minority in this game, always have been except for the botters. This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element.... We all deserve a fun and semi fair place to play. We are not the majority so Im sure we will be ignored.

http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/miner/
This is the miner link no where in it does it say you will be harassed and podded. I could post others as well but Id just waste my time.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#190 - 2012-06-13 23:41:59 UTC
Arsala wrote:
ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.

You can be the new Miners' Friend.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#191 - 2012-06-13 23:43:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Arsala wrote:
ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.

You can be the new Miners' Friend.


Fortunately miners are like the 18-25 demographic in that they whine constantly about change and progress but don't actually vote.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#192 - 2012-06-13 23:44:00 UTC
Arsala wrote:
This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element.
Eh, no.
It's a non-instanced single-shard MMO sandbox where everything is PvP, not only by design, but because that's what you automatically get if you make a non-instanced single-shard MMO sandbox.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#193 - 2012-06-13 23:48:02 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Arsala wrote:
ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.

You can be the new Miners' Friend.

Fortunately miners are like the 18-25 demographic in that they whine constantly about change and progress but don't actually vote.

Tell that to yesterday's Miners' Friend. Either way the rhetoric sounds like something they would go for.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Arsala
Minmatar Mining and Manufacturing.
#194 - 2012-06-13 23:55:55 UTC
I voice the opinion of the few and i get..

https://forums.eveonline.com/error.htm?aspxerrorpath=/default.aspx

really do my words frighten that much that i get the B-Hammer
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#195 - 2012-06-14 01:08:43 UTC
Arsala wrote:
I voice the opinion of the few and i get..

https://forums.eveonline.com/error.htm?aspxerrorpath=/default.aspx

really do my words frighten that much that i get the B-Hammer

CCP got ganked. Oh dear...

Better buff the internet forums CONCORD.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#196 - 2012-06-14 01:14:51 UTC
Arsala wrote:
I voice the opinion of the few and i get..

https://forums.eveonline.com/error.htm?aspxerrorpath=/default.aspx

really do my words frighten that much that i get the B-Hammer


Clearly getting a redirect loop or the forums getting a hiccup is because you are The Miner's (Only) Friend.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2012-06-14 01:25:37 UTC
Arsala wrote:
Many here disagree with an opinion that differs from there own, thats perfectly ok. As it is different I expect some resistance to it.

It's nothing to do with "it's different from my opinion". It's just facts.

Arsala wrote:
But an environment where a corporation is paying others to do the harass a singled out group of individuals based on a specified criteria over and over is the same as one person getting harassed by another over and over ... either way its harassment.

Using that categorization, going after "nullsec ratters" is also harassment, going after another alliance's space is also harassment, and declaring hisec war against another corp/alliance is also harassment.

Arsala wrote:
when a specif group of people are the minority and the majority claims no foul is committed chances are good that the majority is just not wanting to admit they are wrong. This is why civil rights in RL have always been so hard to get for minorities.

First of all, what you whiners keep claiming, every time it's time to talk about the CSM, is that "75% of all players are in hisec". And now, suddenly, the hisec population is "the minority"? ...ok.

As for the definition of "the minority" as a whole, is mining a religion? Are miners a race? Oh wait, it's just an ingame profession.

Arsala wrote:
CPP is responsible for the environment and atmosphere in which we play, the fact that individuals can make and promote an environment where harassment takes place and is actively encouraged is most likely the lack of monitoring on CCP's part and I am sure that once there made aware of it they will move to fix it.

Aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You may have missed the part where we stopped all transport into, and out of, jita for a few days,. What was CCP's response? "******* awesome", is what.

Arsala wrote:
This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element....

Haaaaahahahahahahaahaahaahahahaha

Everything in this game is PVP. If you mine, salvage, buy/haul/sell, anything, it's PVP. PVP isn't just about shooting/getting shot, it's competing versus another player. If you're going to keep playing EVE, then you'd better just fathom this fact and embrace it, ro you will keep on whining about how unfair it is that people can actually kill you in hisec. Which, btw, is space which is designated as safer space, not safe space. The developers have been adamant about this since the game was first released, all the way up until now, and bleating about how it isn't a PVP game, repeatedly and constantly, will not change this fact.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2012-06-14 01:33:30 UTC
Arsala wrote:
There are legal issues here that can be brought into a possible class action.


please point out how ganking in a video game is a "legal issue"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-06-14 01:41:57 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Arsala wrote:
There are legal issues here that can be brought into a possible class action.


please point out how ganking in a video game is a "legal issue"

You see, killing pixels is like killing kittens, and people who kill kittens are sociopaths.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2012-06-14 01:43:56 UTC
arsala is a princess bride parachute account c/d

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration