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The most serious issue with EVE Online. (An honest and heartfelt opinion)
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Morganta
The Greater Goon
#41 - 2012-06-13 19:17:32 UTC
perhaps CCPs art department needs a lesson in what camouflage is and why its used.

obscuring visual features is pointless in an environment where targeting is done with sensors and computers

whats the point, its not like someone is going to fail to target you because they didn't notice your ship hiding in the roids

nevermind that dark, light absorbing colors run counter to the concept that reflecting colors keep solar heat issues at bay and parking a black ship next to the sun is pretty silly
Rikanin
Mining Reloaded
The Commonwealth.
#42 - 2012-06-13 19:39:16 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
The Sacrilege is a carbon copy of the Maller now. The Crane lost it's extra engines on the hull. Vagabond, Huginn, Retribution, Curse and probably even more we haven't noticed yet.

I really don't like what the art department is doing with the T2 bits. It's worrying. They only seem to want lazy T2 reskins, and looking at Carthum and CreoDron they don't care how muddy it looks.

And at the same time the Caldari is totally moving away from its asymmetric modular design. The old Scorp and Ibis looked much more 'Caldari' then the new ones.


Yeah I was pissed about the extra engines taken off the crane too though I disagree about the Creodron skins...before the v3 they looked like some poorly spray painted plastic toy now they look decent.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-06-13 19:48:00 UTC
Depressing.

I liked how the Rapier was shiny and white compared to the rest of the Minmatar rusty's.

As for the Camo paint job, I agree that the Fleet issue ships should have it, also Command ships.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-06-13 19:49:56 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
When they stopped the flappy wings on the Huginn I stopped caring


Oh the humanity...
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#45 - 2012-06-13 19:51:19 UTC
I just want the top fin/sail back on my hound. I liked being a bomber shark, surfacing out of a gas cloud, fin first.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-06-13 19:51:48 UTC
Morganta wrote:
perhaps CCPs art department needs a lesson in what camouflage is and why its used.

obscuring visual features is pointless in an environment where targeting is done with sensors and computers

whats the point, its not like someone is going to fail to target you because they didn't notice your ship hiding in the roids

nevermind that dark, light absorbing colors run counter to the concept that reflecting colors keep solar heat issues at bay and parking a black ship next to the sun is pretty silly

I'm rather sure that they are using camouflage because in someones mind camo = a clear sign of a military vessel and not for it's functional aspects. Or at least I hope not.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-06-13 19:53:50 UTC
Bat ears need to stay, I don't even fly Minmatar but the vagabond hull needs to stay. I really wish they asked for community imput before getting rid of parts on a ship. They often underestimate how much people are attached to their ships (even if you lose it a million times).

Remember the Arbi engine?
Torneach
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-06-13 20:02:03 UTC
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
I really wish they asked for community imput before getting rid of parts on a ship. They often underestimate how much people are attached to their ships (even if you lose it a million times).


But this is CCP we're talking about. Their vision is pure and :awesome:.
Stalafur
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-06-13 20:42:49 UTC
Nooo not the top wingy bit!
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#50 - 2012-06-13 20:48:47 UTC
Possum's Awesome wrote:
I want the ****-ing police light back on my ****-ing Navy Comet, mother ******-s.


This x1000. If people really cared about Eve, they would put this as their number one priority.

No trolling please
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-06-13 21:03:17 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Morganta wrote:
perhaps CCPs art department needs a lesson in what camouflage is and why its used.

obscuring visual features is pointless in an environment where targeting is done with sensors and computers

whats the point, its not like someone is going to fail to target you because they didn't notice your ship hiding in the roids

nevermind that dark, light absorbing colors run counter to the concept that reflecting colors keep solar heat issues at bay and parking a black ship next to the sun is pretty silly

I'm rather sure that they are using camouflage because in someones mind camo = a clear sign of a military vessel and not for it's functional aspects. Or at least I hope not.


Funny thing about the military and camouflage in a large, open, featureless environment like the sea or space...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-06-13 21:31:47 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
When they stopped the flappy wings on the Huginn I stopped caring


Oh the humanity...

http://zenisstupid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/1648oh-the-huge-manatee.jpg

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Torneach
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-06-13 21:34:42 UTC
Saile Litestrider wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Morganta wrote:
perhaps CCPs art department needs a lesson in what camouflage is and why its used.

obscuring visual features is pointless in an environment where targeting is done with sensors and computers

whats the point, its not like someone is going to fail to target you because they didn't notice your ship hiding in the roids

nevermind that dark, light absorbing colors run counter to the concept that reflecting colors keep solar heat issues at bay and parking a black ship next to the sun is pretty silly

I'm rather sure that they are using camouflage because in someones mind camo = a clear sign of a military vessel and not for it's functional aspects. Or at least I hope not.


Funny thing about the military and camouflage in a large, open, featureless environment like the sea or space...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage


Except that camouflage still relies on sight, EVE ships target things without needing to visually see things.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#54 - 2012-06-13 21:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Saile Litestrider wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Morganta wrote:
perhaps CCPs art department needs a lesson in what camouflage is and why its used.

obscuring visual features is pointless in an environment where targeting is done with sensors and computers

whats the point, its not like someone is going to fail to target you because they didn't notice your ship hiding in the roids

nevermind that dark, light absorbing colors run counter to the concept that reflecting colors keep solar heat issues at bay and parking a black ship next to the sun is pretty silly

I'm rather sure that they are using camouflage because in someones mind camo = a clear sign of a military vessel and not for it's functional aspects. Or at least I hope not.


Funny thing about the military and camouflage in a large, open, featureless environment like the sea or space...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage


poor example
Dazzle was intended to confuse gunners as to the bearing and course of the target vessel, it's obviously not intended to make the ship invisible.

our weapons do not rely on manual input of course information, in fact navies don't manually input tracking data anymore, a main reason why dazzle and naval camouflage in general don't exist in the modern world except for perhaps small boats with no radar return.
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-06-13 21:52:32 UTC
Morganta wrote:
poor example
Dazzle was intended to confuse gunners as to the bearing and course of the target vessel, it's obviously not intended to make the ship invisible.

our weapons do not rely on manual input of course information, in fact navies don't manually input tracking data anymore, a main reason why dazzle and naval camouflage in general don't exist in the modern world except for perhaps small boats with no radar return.

How does that make it a poor example?

The typical "camouflage" people think of is worthless in a featureless expanse like space. Dazzle is a prime example of that. It's also a prime example of why camouflage as an indicator of being military hardware is a poor notion as well.

In short, our ships should be painted in attractive, pleasing colors, because it really doesn't matter in any way, shape or form from a tactical stand point.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#56 - 2012-06-13 21:58:41 UTC
Saile Litestrider wrote:
Morganta wrote:
poor example
Dazzle was intended to confuse gunners as to the bearing and course of the target vessel, it's obviously not intended to make the ship invisible.

our weapons do not rely on manual input of course information, in fact navies don't manually input tracking data anymore, a main reason why dazzle and naval camouflage in general don't exist in the modern world except for perhaps small boats with no radar return.

How does that make it a poor example?

The typical "camouflage" people think of is worthless in a featureless expanse like space. Dazzle is a prime example of that. It's also a prime example of why camouflage as an indicator of being military hardware is a poor notion as well.

In short, our ships should be painted in attractive, pleasing colors, because it really doesn't matter in any way, shape or form from a tactical stand point.


its only worthless if you don't need to know which end is the front and dazzle while not superb was still somewhat effective as designed.

and I'm fairly sure more commercial shipping and merchants used dazzle as ASW than military ships did

dazzle was a direct answer to a specific problem, that's why its a poor example
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc.
#57 - 2012-06-13 22:02:28 UTC
These forums have really gone downhill. I joke about the importance of some superfluous bat ear... foil... wingy bits and it degenerates nearly instantly into people calling out CCP and arguing with each other over ridiculous things.

Unsubscribing to my own post. Straight
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-06-13 23:39:42 UTC
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
These forums have really gone downhill. I joke about the importance of some superfluous bat ear... foil... wingy bits and it degenerates nearly instantly into people calling out CCP and arguing with each other over ridiculous things.

Unsubscribing to my own post. Straight


Actually, you made a joke about what's been a sore nerve of the community's for quite a while. Maybe you didn't realize it, but the community has been pretty upset for a long time about CCP replacing ship models with ones that are markedly worse.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-06-13 23:40:46 UTC
CCP

I want my classic vagabond. It is one of the most distinguished vessels in EVE.

Don't make it look sleek, it is beautiful the way it is.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-06-13 23:46:26 UTC
You would think that such advanced humans would have thought to paint thier SPACE ships black. You know, cause they're in space.