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Speeding up trainingtime just for Sisi possible or not?

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Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#1 - 2012-06-12 07:19:44 UTC
Hi folks,

So this morning i was thinking about asking CCp to eventually implent / seeding those special +6,+7 and +8 Attributes Implants on market to speed up some different training you wanted to do ever on Sisi totally contrary to TQ, aside of participating in masstests to gain those special 2 Million SP each there may perhaps also players wanting to tran skills which they arent want to spend those SP's in, so thougth about if at all would it be possible to give those Implants just only for this purpose on Sisi market?

And i know it may have been asked many times Could it be possible to just give everyone while training skills on Sisi give a 100% speed up if the Implant seeding wont work?

just asking this question hoping some CCP Dev can answer it, and maybe some construktive posts may also come up.

mfg

Carola Kessler Smile
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2012-06-12 11:11:53 UTC
I am of the opinion that masstest SP is a sufficient boost and I would not want to boost that any further. If you can think of a cogent reason why this would add value to our test server over and above the admin it would create, I'm listening.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#3 - 2012-06-12 11:20:45 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
I am of the opinion that masstest SP is a sufficient boost and I would not want to boost that any further. If you can think of a cogent reason why this would add value to our test server over and above the admin it would create, I'm listening.


Thanks for your response CCP Goliath and yeah maybe i have a valid point.

Lets see it from the side of having more variables of stuff you can train with fasted up trainingtime for a more broader testing avabilities even for those specialized in some thing but are interessted to try out stuff yet they didn't done yet also have no time to participate in masstests but want to give certain other aspects a look at.

as example:

An until now only for Science and research trained player wanted to try out the prodding aspect can't participate in Masstest due to lack of Combat skills so he will have to train the various skills needed first to test the aspect he wanted to test out on Sisi. And so on and so fort.

so with speed up training time this player can faster approach and complete the needed skills to test and perhaps find a bug which wasn't discovered until then and report it to Q&A team fixes another stuff was probably broken.

On this point the peoples can check out a broader wide of existing features in each new build and can keep you gyus from the programming front updated where problems occouring.

mfg

Carola Kessler Smile
Mund Richard
#4 - 2012-06-12 12:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Due to RL and previous training plans, I've only reached now the point where I actively became interested in SiSi.

Being able to try out all sorts of stuff with extra SP sounds great, except... Looking back in the calendar I see that every month had 1-3 masstest this year, but looking ahead I see none.

An SP training boost would help those who for whatever reason (RL) cannot participate in a masstest, or just came along like me in a low-activity time of SiSi (regarding the extra SP boosts).

I do see the downside though, it would easily be "not enough" of a boost (making it useless), or end up making the mass tests not matter (why attend when you can get passively enough anyway). A cap on how much extra SP you can get, that is more harsh than the mass tests would solve it?

Idea
How about giving out a fix base SP as if one had joined *one* mass test (and capped there unless truly participating in them).
Administrating it would be a hassle I understand (specially when to remove the extra SP and when to add it back, unless it's reset regulary), but it would be appreciated I imagine.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#5 - 2012-06-12 17:39:52 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
I am of the opinion that masstest SP is a sufficient boost and I would not want to boost that any further. If you can think of a cogent reason why this would add value to our test server over and above the admin it would create, I'm listening.


Due to the need for devs to be present, and a desire not to force them to spend their weekends administrating them mass-tests are typically run during the at times that are roughly equivalent to "EU evening".

This basically locks out the vast majority of EVE players who would be interested but live in other timezones. College students and folks who work from home might be able to do it, but anyone who has a standard 9-5 job in the US, for example, will never be able to make it to a mass test. End result, there's a huge population of people who really want to participate in the mass tests, but can't, and therefore never get to get the free SP in order to use it. Making the extra levels of attribute implants available on the seeded markets wouldn't fix the problem but it would help alleviate it.

That good enough of a reason? Big smile

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Daddy Thundercock
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-06-13 10:12:28 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
I am of the opinion that masstest SP is a sufficient boost and I would not want to boost that any further. If you can think of a cogent reason why this would add value to our test server over and above the admin it would create, I'm listening.


Due to the need for devs to be present, and a desire not to force them to spend their weekends administrating them mass-tests are typically run during the at times that are roughly equivalent to "EU evening".

This basically locks out the vast majority of EVE players who would be interested but live in other timezones. College students and folks who work from home might be able to do it, but anyone who has a standard 9-5 job in the US, for example, will never be able to make it to a mass test. End result, there's a huge population of people who really want to participate in the mass tests, but can't, and therefore never get to get the free SP in order to use it. Making the extra levels of attribute implants available on the seeded markets wouldn't fix the problem but it would help alleviate it.

That good enough of a reason? Big smile



She has a very good point, every mass test I've seen has been scheduled at 4pm Eastern Daylight Time (GMT -4, east coast USA), which has made my ability to participate problematic at best. as a matter of fact, on the upcoming masstest I will be running both of my accounts + my roomate's because he will be at work.......the only reason I can do it is because I'm unemployed, but when that changes, so will my ability to participate.

Now I'm with Goliath in not totally hosing things on sisi or creating any more work, but at the same time due to the dev's schedules as to when they are able to run masstests there is a very good argument for some....say meta 13 or meta 14 sisi-only implants (like +8's). At least, I would say they have a pretty cogent argument, but then again I'm just another non-eu timezome player that wants to test on sisi and help the devs out.....
Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#7 - 2012-06-13 14:24:35 UTC
So CCP Goliath....some other peoples brougth up some very valid points as of Why my idea could give some benefits to the current Test server use, cause as said many players either doesn't have the time to participate in Masstest due to the RL time it happens but are willing to help out in testing the features but can't due to lack of skills or again having to train up certain skill branchs for a long timeframe to be able to test what they wanted to test under regular circumstances.

Maybe some other players can bring up more valid points and maybe you will thinking about my idea and give it at least for a few weeks or months a try though.

mfg

Carola Kessler Smile
CCP Konflikt
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-06-13 16:26:35 UTC
Instead of asking for a reason, I'm going to give the reason we don't do a lot of things that would make singularity better.

The choice is always between making Eve a better game for our paying customers or making singularity a better arcade mode of TQ for a very small number of players, this is because developers have deadlines and a finite amount of time to finish their work.

It is possible? Certainly.

Will it happen? No.

CCP Konflikt Quality Assurance Engineer Team Trilambda
Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#9 - 2012-06-13 19:57:52 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
Instead of asking for a reason, I'm going to give the reason we don't do a lot of things that would make singularity better.

The choice is always between making Eve a better game for our paying customers or making singularity a better arcade mode of TQ for a very small number of players, this is because developers have deadlines and a finite amount of time to finish their work.

It is possible? Certainly.

Will it happen? No.




Well look at it from the point you brougth up making Eve a better game for the paying Customers, So here i'am...i'm A paying customer trying to point out a idea giving tests and bugreporting in new builds a faster process if more peoples can train a more wider bandwith of aspects instead slowly learn up the skill branch until they can test what they want.

Speeding up the skill training time will have an impact on making Eve a better game due allready pointed valid things brougth up here.

Please dear CCP Konflikt....think again about it and maybe you'll see its at least worth giving it a try.

Sincerly mfg

Carola Kessler Smile
James Q Farpoint
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-06-14 10:48:42 UTC
Just give all characters all skills at level 5. Problem solved. Ok probably that generates a lot of other issues but it would be fairly easy to do and everyone could test everything (except stuff related to skill training).
Missile War
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-06-14 14:28:07 UTC
James Q Farpoint wrote:
Just give all characters all skills at level 5. Problem solved. Ok probably that generates a lot of other issues but it would be fairly easy to do and everyone could test everything (except stuff related to skill training).



RIGHT, because that tottaly didn't go wrong a quite long time ago >.> Altho I am for getting more sp from masstests(Slighty more, not like 5m a masstest) I aint for way to fast training since that will indeed, make sisi just like TQ, but then a heaven in comparison.
Mund Richard
#12 - 2012-06-14 16:03:55 UTC
Missile War wrote:
James Q Farpoint wrote:
Just give all characters all skills at level 5. Problem solved. Ok probably that generates a lot of other issues but it would be fairly easy to do and everyone could test everything (except stuff related to skill training).



RIGHT, because that tottaly didn't go wrong a quite long time ago >.> Altho I am for getting more sp from masstests(Slighty more, not like 5m a masstest) I aint for way to fast training since that will indeed, make sisi just like TQ, but then a heaven in comparison.

I do share the scepticism, but fast training wouldn't ruin SiSi, since mirroring would reset skills.
But I don't think it's a good idea.

And since no one replied to my "SP boost for everyone as if having participated *one* masstest", I suppose that's not that shiny as well.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#13 - 2012-06-15 00:39:35 UTC
Carola Kessler wrote:
wanted to try out the prodding aspect


Wow so you're saying we can prod other people in game? Is it some kind of space cattle-prod? I want one.

BTW the game is in TQ, not SISI. I'm pretty sure CCP wants people to keep playing on tq, not bleeding over to sisi just because they can have new stuff.

IOW - not going to happen.
Maraneth Crysradas
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-06-24 20:58:59 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
Instead of asking for a reason, I'm going to give the reason we don't do a lot of things that would make singularity better.

The choice is always between making Eve a better game for our paying customers or making singularity a better arcade mode of TQ for a very small number of players, this is because developers have deadlines and a finite amount of time to finish their work.

It is possible? Certainly.

Will it happen? No.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need an active PAID account to use the test server? Does that not make those who use the test server PAYING customers?.?.?.?

Roll
Izuru Hishido
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-06-24 22:02:40 UTC
I love you Konflikt. Thanks for saying everything I was about to.

Maraneth: There are legal ways of keeping your accounts active on singularity, even if your subscription on TQ has lapsed, but they require certain things to occur, which I'm not going to disclose.

Keeping this short, CCP is under absolutely no requirement whatsoever to make training time faster on Singularity, they are under no requirement to tailor the schedule of the masstests to fit your schedule, and they have no requirement to do anything special for players whatsoever. The few people that use singularity use it like an arcade, and the few that use it for a testing environment are already close enough to/have the skills required to test what they wish.

That does not include State Ravens with Estamel's midslots or anything equally ridiculous.

If you want to test something, train for it. If you need a boost to get there, go to a masstest. If you can't get to the masstests, tough ****.

CCP do not maintain this server so that they can babysit you and put it on easy mode for you. Singularity exists first as a testbed for upcoming expansions where the QA and BH's can search for issues with modules, ships, or else, then it exists as a tool for QA to test certain aspects of current expansions without having to tinker with TQ or Duality, and it only then exists as a playground for you and your friends.

Singularity is a tool for the developers, not for your personal gratification.
CCP Konflikt
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-06-25 14:25:40 UTC
Maraneth Crysradas wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need an active PAID account to use the test server? Does that not make those who use the test server PAYING customers?.?.?.?

Roll


You do need a paid account to play on the test server but we don't explicitly sell access to the test server, it's a handy bonus for players and a work environment for developers.

Let's put this into a numerical perspective ~200 Daily users log into Singularity and ~45,000 users logged into TQ today already. So should 0.4% of our daily users (who also have TQ access) get development time that we can dedicate to everyone instead of 0.4% of everyone?

CCP Konflikt Quality Assurance Engineer Team Trilambda
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#17 - 2012-06-25 15:10:02 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
I am of the opinion that masstest SP is a sufficient boost and I would not want to boost that any further. If you can think of a cogent reason why this would add value to our test server over and above the admin it would create, I'm listening.


Many people cannot participate in mass tests due to when they are held, 2000 on a weekday. Those people have no way to get the extra SP. Adding a method for them to do so should be considered.

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