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Wars, Allies and the Mercenary Market

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Author
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#41 - 2012-06-10 19:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Simple fix I think some stuff OP said. Defender can bring 1 ally in for free. Additional allies cost on an increasing scale dependent on corp size. After 1 ally, aggressor can bring in assistance for free. 2:1 ratio. Win conditions for a set pot of isk. Or smaller objectives for smaller parts of the pot.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#42 - 2012-06-10 20:07:24 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
i dont get it if ccp says that high sec is not supposed to be safe then why would they make a mechanic that would make it safer for larger alliances? I mean if a hulk is not safe in high sec then why is a goon freighter?

just head into dek and kill goons there - isk spent on wardec: 0, available target: lots

I find it hilarious you put the word "Just" in that sentence.

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Michiko Kat Sterling
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-06-13 02:34:32 UTC
I agree with Vincent just keep cloaked ships on every system round the clock in Dek... Shoot anything mining or carrying anything. I find it hard to believe the goons can't defend themselves. What happened to the sandbox so are we saying with this update that a big alliance can stomp any small alliance that they want.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-06-13 02:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Also, it costs a small fortune for a 1-man corp to wardec Goonswarm, and a pittance for Goonswarm to wardec a 1-man corp. Instead, I suggest basing the wardec cost on the total number of participants [i]on both sides.

I hear a lot of this "new wardec system sucks because i wanna attack goonswarm", there's like 16 regions where you can attack them for free without paying .01 isk for a wardec.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#45 - 2012-06-13 02:41:20 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Also, it costs a small fortune for a 1-man corp to wardec Goonswarm, and a pittance for Goonswarm to wardec a 1-man corp. Instead, I suggest basing the wardec cost on the total number of participants [i]on both sides.

I hear a lot of this "new wardec system sucks because i wanna attack goonswarm", there's like 16 regions where you can attack them for free without paying .01 isk for a wardec.


I think there are also a good number of wardecs you can Ally yourself into if you want to fight goonswarm.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#46 - 2012-06-13 03:12:57 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Also, it costs a small fortune for a 1-man corp to wardec Goonswarm, and a pittance for Goonswarm to wardec a 1-man corp. Instead, I suggest basing the wardec cost on the total number of participants [i]on both sides.

I hear a lot of this "new wardec system sucks because i wanna attack goonswarm", there's like 16 regions where you can attack them for free without paying .01 isk for a wardec.


I think there are also a good number of wardecs you can Ally yourself into if you want to fight goonswarm.

Try asking Jade Constantine, I think they can set you up.

WARNING: You may be unable to leave the war until we drop it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-06-13 03:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
RubyPorto wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Also, it costs a small fortune for a 1-man corp to wardec Goonswarm, and a pittance for Goonswarm to wardec a 1-man corp. Instead, I suggest basing the wardec cost on the total number of participants [i]on both sides.

I hear a lot of this "new wardec system sucks because i wanna attack goonswarm", there's like 16 regions where you can attack them for free without paying .01 isk for a wardec.


I think there are also a good number of wardecs you can Ally yourself into if you want to fight goonswarm.


Feel free to ally with my Corp if you like for such purposes. As for some reason the existance of a young 3 man Corp in High Sec has become a serious threat to Goonswarm security recently for some reason. Blink
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2012-06-13 03:18:06 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Feel free to ally with my Corp if you like for such purposes. As for some reason the existance of a young 3 man Corp in High Sec is a serious threat to Goonswarm security. ;)

There you have it. Sign on the dotted line, please :)

I look forward to seeing the EVEmail from CONCORD.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-06-13 03:26:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Alavaria Fera wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

I think there are also a good number of wardecs you can Ally yourself into if you want to fight goonswarm.


...

WARNING: You may be unable to leave the war until we drop it.


Allied help I believe only nominally comes in batches of 2 week spells? (As of inferno 1.1)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-06-13 03:30:31 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Allied help I believe only nominally comes in batches of 2 week spells? (As of inferno 1.1)

Aww, they changed it? Oh well.

Then you'll have to refresh the alliance then. Keep at it though !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#51 - 2012-06-13 13:51:34 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Allied help I believe only nominally comes in batches of 2 week spells? (As of inferno 1.1)


edited the OP with this info. Thanks for the link.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-06-13 15:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Olleybear wrote:
Love the OP post. Good post.

One thing I would like to add, in case someone else hasnt already, is having a place Mercs can advertise their services, prices, area of operation, etc. Defenders could then browse the ads and pick who they want to help them instead of waiting on offers.



This extention to the merc system would go a long way to improving things. In short it would actually make it more of an actual market of course. Unsure how much more in terms of iterations this area of the game will have in the near future. But capabilities may be improved as per comments peole are making regarding expanding on the mercenary elements in game with real in game rich features to explore commercial contracts properly.

At the same time there is the Treaties feature seemingly ressurected by the CSM to potentially expand on "negociations" between organisations further.

The only complication I have personally about the application of a mercenary market is the aspect of trust and also the relative ease of being able to see who will actually be an effective option to choose. At present other than some IG knowledge their isnt realistically a simple way to understand reputations and effective merc options of such things as a result. As such I'm not sure what would be the answer to this IG that would allow quick and easy decisions by CEO's in responce to defending war decs to seriously be a useful easy to use tool to them. But if the intention is to limit the numbers of potential allies and you have to scrutinise the most effective help for purposes then you will need some form of easy to see metrics reagarding capabilites and perhaps recommendations following assistance to gauge reputations perhaps.

Certainly I don't understand the reason to really put a limit on it. But if there had to be one, I'd suggest to at least ensure the defender has a chance to allow allies in pilots numbers greater to some extent (by percentage if need be, e.g. 150%) than there attacker to justify the existing balance to the design for war mechanics. Else with certain threasholds options could easily be limited with large alliances not only then having more control with numbers if attacking, but with clever tactical use, can engage interested parties and concerns with ruse contracts and divert focus elsewhere as needs, also at present if you are already allied in a war with a defender against said attacker, you "cannot" then ally yourself in a similar war against the same attacker in another war. Which in itself is a another limiter I guess to political clout but also limiting mercenary payments as parallel payments could be valid here perhaps? Since the interests are supporting more than one entity in kind in theory.

Besides that it also seems just comercially bad sense to limit mercenary options in this way. It kind of could be seen as trying to monopolise the market also. Also the attacker can surrender the war if things become too much, so other than loss of epeen for then realising they bit off more than they can chew they can release themselves by simply not paying the bill. If the defender is purely limited to merc contracts then the attacker could simply outbid or pay off the contracts in secret negociations and thus the biggest wallet always wins period. Though to some extent that is an existing reality with the wars anyhow.

Also convictions need to be in place for allied help to support defender interests purely on ethical, moral or a politcal stance so to some extent besides mercenaries needing some helpfull mechanics to advetise and easy influence war situations with a valid service, the retention of having "free" allies I feel should remain as a valid option. Wether however said allies with serious convictions still need to have a small notional paid retainer even if they themselves may then end up paying for the privaledge.

All the above points I hope prove helpfull for discussion.

Personally with my 3 man corporation being a serious security issue to the largest alliance in EVE for some apparent reason (Mittens and Goons being shy to explain the cause for the war dec) I would personally need some way of answering in kind to this level of aggression wtithout going bankrupt. Funnily enough had free offers already from people eager to fight the Goons, but they are already engaged in hostilites against GSF in other wars so cannot ally them as a result at the present time.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#53 - 2012-06-14 14:50:10 UTC
New dev blog!

Highlights:

-Ally contracts will now have a fixed length of two weeks.
-Allies can now no longer be part of mutual wars.
-There is a cost now associated with hiring lots of allies.
-There is now a [500 million isk] cap on how [defender size] affect the war declaration cost.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

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