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Crimes for Unposted Policies?

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Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#141 - 2012-06-13 02:42:20 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
The question is coming from someone who has clearly lied
About what?

More to the point: so what? Don't go for the ad hominem. It's still a question worth asking, and it's still worth a proper answer.
Assuming that a different rule is being applied doesn't answer the question.



This entire thread is based on the word of a liar. He states that he got a specific type of warning for a specific type of action, what I am saying is that he got an entirely different warning for an entirely different type of action. There is more proof of what actually happened, than what he SAYS happened. Thus his question is invalid, and arguing in support of having it answered is an exercise in futility and an example of gross stupidity.


Regardless of whether or not the OP lied, the GMs should explicitly state whether or not the SOE epic arc systems are covered by the rookie system rule.

I realize that you have trouble understanding this, and you're clinging onto anything you can because your ego will be destroyed by being wrong on the internet, but the question posed by the OP, regardless of whether or not everything in the OP was 100% accurate, needs to be answered.


Ha ha ha. You assume far too much dear poster, my ego does not rely on anything as mundane as a thread on a game forum. I am merely enjoying where this is going Blink It should also be noted that if the OP has lied about the reason and circumstances for his warning/ban, then the question is irrelevant.

And since it is now 3:40am here and my need for fun has been fulfilled, I shall be off to bed.On a separate but related note, I'm thinking my application to join the CCL has been well and truly scuppered by now.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
isk4trade
Cogitation Mining and Industrial Trading
#142 - 2012-06-13 02:42:20 UTC
Ok ... I posted a LONG, considered and I think intelligent reply to this thread and it seems to have disappeared into limbo.

BEAUTIFUL

You people are missing a LOT of issues here.


1. What is a "rookie"?
2. What is a "rookie" system?
3 What is NOT permitted in a rookie system and to WHOM? (players below a certain game age or everyone?)
4. What if a very young player is the alt of a veteran player working at getting aggression for his alt? Is he still a "rookie"?
5. Do you not know that MANY veteran players come through Arnon to do the Epic Arc missions to tweak their faction standings? I have seen lots and lots of 2003 to 2011 players doing the Epic Arc in Arnon doing just that in very Elite ships.
6. How does one comply with "cease such activities or face repercussions" orders if they don't know what activities are meant really?
7. Do you not realize there is often much wailing and gnashing of teeth about "can flipping" and "griefing" and "ganking" when all that has occurred at the time is a simple THEFT?
8. Do you know how many systems are involved with the SOE Epic Arc all the way to Metropolis and surrounds and back?

I was also recently given a GM warning telling me to cease posting offensive links on local or face "repercussions". and not given the link or what type of content was in it. I therefore do not know what is and is not acceptible to post in the way of a link so must I stop posting all but acceptible to kindergarten students links? This may seem a little OT but it is very related to the issues at hand.

I found the notice terse, vague, and generic - leaving me not knowing even summarily what I should NOT do in the future to avoid @repercussions".

These types of warnings reminds me of kids that used to set themselves up as ChannelMasters or Moderators on BBS's served over the Commodore 64 many many many years ago where what WAS and WAS NOT permitted was dependent upon who was online and what mood they were in, and is not appropriate policing for a PAY TO PLAY commercial game IMO.

me
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#143 - 2012-06-13 02:43:31 UTC
Those who are flaming the OP should visit the SOE Epic Arc system some time.

It's a Jita-like local in that system with all the trash talking.

Most of the time new players are not baited, but sometimes they will flip a can not knowing the consequences.

The rest of the time, it's the people who never moved on that talk trash and often throw down on each other.
Typically it's the can placed at the station to get 1v1 fights that cause these problems, I guess...
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#144 - 2012-06-13 02:46:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I can tell you first hand when you get a warning CCP do not tell you who petitioned you, if OP claims he "knows" it was not a rookie, he is lying.
He doesn't claim to know that.

He claims that he got a reason and a location, for which that reason does not apply.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:
This entire thread is based on the word of a liar.
What has he lied about? And again, why does it matter for the question being asked? His question is not invalid just because of his history. In fact, his history makes the question very interesting…

Actually he does claim the warning was "specifically for messing with non rookies":

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1466480#post1466480

He could not possibly know this, since the person petitioning him would not have been identified. Add to that the fact that almost all his kills are rookies, and you get an OP who is just embellishing his tale of woe to try and appear the victim of unfair GM treatmet.

I would not be against CCP clarifying their position now someone had come along and confused the issue, but in general you cannot expect CCP to always verify or dismiss the ravings of random forum lunatics. I think threads like these are probably the very reason moderation discussion is not allowed.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#145 - 2012-06-13 02:49:13 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Nice posting


I'm gonna give you a nice cookie before I go to bed.

*gives cookie*

Big smileBig smileBig smile

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#146 - 2012-06-13 02:50:58 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I can tell you first hand when you get a warning CCP do not tell you who petitioned you, if OP claims he "knows" it was not a rookie, he is lying.
He doesn't claim to know that.

He claims that he got a reason and a location, for which that reason does not apply.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:
This entire thread is based on the word of a liar.
What has he lied about? And again, why does it matter for the question being asked? His question is not invalid just because of his history. In fact, his history makes the question very interesting…

Actually he does claim the warning was "specifically for messing with non rookies":

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1466480#post1466480

He could not possibly know this, since the person petitioning him would not have been identified. Add to that the fact that almost all his kills are rookies, and you get an OP who is just embellishing his tale of woe to try and appear the victim of unfair GM treatmet.

I would not be against CCP clarifying their position now someone had come along and confused the issue, but in general you cannot expect CCP to always verify or dismiss the ravings of random forum lunatics. I think threads like these are probably the very reason moderation discussion is not allowed.


As a side note, the OP is terrible at EVE. Regardless of whether or not his story is true, or whether or not he sucks at EVE and is a douche, the question is one that has a pretty wide range of repercussions, and needs to be addressed immediately.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#147 - 2012-06-13 02:51:44 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Actually he does claim the warning was "specifically for messing with non rookies":

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1466480#post1466480
Fair enough. Missed that.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-06-13 02:55:18 UTC
AFK Hauler wrote:
Those who are flaming the OP should visit the SOE Epic Arc system some time.

It's a Jita-like local in that system with all the trash talking.

Most of the time new players are not baited, but sometimes they will flip a can not knowing the consequences.

The rest of the time, it's the people who never moved on that talk trash and often throw down on each other.
Typically it's the can placed at the station to get 1v1 fights that cause these problems, I guess...


You are right there. I redid the arc a few months ago. Was in a cane and had a guy scan me down and warp to me in a nighthawk, he then looted the mission can and told me to pay 40m if I want him to abandon the can.

I gave him the finger, collected his tears and just restarted the mission.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#149 - 2012-06-13 03:19:57 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
AFK Hauler wrote:
Those who are flaming the OP should visit the SOE Epic Arc system some time.

It's a Jita-like local in that system with all the trash talking.

Most of the time new players are not baited, but sometimes they will flip a can not knowing the consequences.

The rest of the time, it's the people who never moved on that talk trash and often throw down on each other.
Typically it's the can placed at the station to get 1v1 fights that cause these problems, I guess...


You are right there. I redid the arc a few months ago. Was in a cane and had a guy scan me down and warp to me in a nighthawk, he then looted the mission can and told me to pay 40m if I want him to abandon the can.

I gave him the finger, collected his tears and just restarted the mission.

Can you post those tears? It would be, uh, relevant to the discussion.

I think.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Stella Wolf
Doomheim
#150 - 2012-06-13 05:32:47 UTC
Bump
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#151 - 2012-06-13 07:36:17 UTC
Wasn't there mention a while back (I can't remember how long but it was new forums) about theft of "unique" mission items, particularly from the epic arcs, being counted as griefing?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2012-06-13 08:38:42 UTC
To be honest..

When I see a Hulk can mining in a rookie system. You can bet your arse im making that can mine.

It is not can baiting, but apprently can flipping is also not allowed. I can understand them not wanting rookies to go through this.

But to me somebody in a Tech II mining ships or a batleship is fair game.... right?... right?

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2012-06-13 09:02:33 UTC
Op lacks common sense.
Op lacks courage
Op lacks Commitment
Op lacks balls

Dude these guys are still learning to play eve and you whine cause you got no skills for pvp and gotta pick on the new kids. you deserve the punishment that was given to you.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#154 - 2012-06-13 10:01:33 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
I'd also like some clarification.

I'm on the last part of the SOE storyline and can't break Dagon's tank.

I figured I'd wait until four days until I got Engineering to V and could fit that last gun, but I might ask in Local for help instead.


Ask for help. If some douche takes Dagan, fail the mission and pick it up again.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-06-13 10:13:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Can flipping is prohibited in the newbie systems.


That's not in the rules either.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-06-13 10:16:34 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Yeah, screw the rules, right?

Rules are for the small minds that need them.

Wait. What?

If I don't know what the rules are, how am I supposed to know if I'm breaking them?

Dumbest.

Post.

Ever.

you can find this in every country's law. You sure you know your local law 100%? And nobody can say so. But you follow it. Or you will have consequences.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
GM Homonoia
Game Master Retirement Home
#157 - 2012-06-13 10:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: GM Homonoia
Tl;dr We are extending our rookie griefing rules to the system of Arnon.

See our wiki page on this subject: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

History lesson
A long long time ago in a galaxy right here in the EVE universe we had a lot of new players who undocked for the very first time and were trying to figure out how to fly their ships. There was also a small group of players that wanted to pad their kill mails in the easiest way possible by preying upon those people who had not yet found the trigger to their civilian guns. This last group moved into the rookie starter systems and started killing our new recruits. This is not cool and so us game masters decided that messing with these newest and most helpless players was not allowed. A ban was put into place for griefing rookies in their starter systems.

Of course, these predators decided that rules should be followed to the letter and the spirit behind these rules can be ignored at will and moved to the career agent systems to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately this forced us to extend the ban on griefing rookies to these systems as well.

Present day
Now these scavengers of corpses have moved to the Sisters of EVE epic arc systems to do the exact same thing once again. This is forcing us to extend this ban to the Arnon system as well. Let me state very clearly that we do so with great reluctance. We do NOT like to impose rules and limitations like these upon the sandbox and we do not do so lightly. These measures are always debated hotly within our department and can often take multiple months of deliberation to make absolutely sure we are doing the right thing.

Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc. These systems are:

- Tar
- Harerget
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Lisudeh
- Sosh
- Manarq
- Chainelant

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#158 - 2012-06-13 10:47:27 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
Tl;dr We are extending our rookie griefing rules to the system of Arnon.

See our wiki page on this subject: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

History lesson
A long long time ago in a galaxy right here in the EVE universe we had a lot of new players who undocked for the very first time and were trying to figure out how to fly their ships. There was also a small group of players that wanted to pad their kill mails in the easiest way possible by preying upon those people who had not yet found the trigger to their civilian guns. This last group moved into the rookie starter systems and started killing our new recruits. This is not cool and so us game masters decided that messing with these newest and most helpless players was not allowed. A ban was put into place for griefing rookies in their starter systems.

Of course, these predators decided that rules should be followed to the letter and the spirit behind these rules can be ignored at will and moved to the career agent systems to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately this forced us to extend the ban on griefing rookies to these systems as well.

Present day
Now these scavengers of corpses have moved to the Sisters of EVE epic arc systems to do the exact same thing once again. This is forcing us to extend this ban to the Arnon system as well. Let me state very clearly that we do so with great reluctance. We do NOT like to impose rules and limitations like these upon the sandbox and we do not do so lightly. These measures are always debated hotly within our department and can often take multiple months of deliberation to make absolutely sure we are doing the right thing.

Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc. These systems are:

- Tar
- Harerget
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Lisudeh
- Sosh
- Manarq
- Chainelant

If there is a ban on griefing rookies in these systems, will there also be a ban on stuff like hulk mining? And I presume anyone flying a BS/T3 is fair game right?

Not that I personally ever set foot in high sec, but I wouldn't want to see these systems become a safe haven for people who aren't rookies.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
GM Homonoia
Game Master Retirement Home
#159 - 2012-06-13 10:52:10 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
Tl;dr We are extending our rookie griefing rules to the system of Arnon.

See our wiki page on this subject: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

History lesson
A long long time ago in a galaxy right here in the EVE universe we had a lot of new players who undocked for the very first time and were trying to figure out how to fly their ships. There was also a small group of players that wanted to pad their kill mails in the easiest way possible by preying upon those people who had not yet found the trigger to their civilian guns. This last group moved into the rookie starter systems and started killing our new recruits. This is not cool and so us game masters decided that messing with these newest and most helpless players was not allowed. A ban was put into place for griefing rookies in their starter systems.

Of course, these predators decided that rules should be followed to the letter and the spirit behind these rules can be ignored at will and moved to the career agent systems to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately this forced us to extend the ban on griefing rookies to these systems as well.

Present day
Now these scavengers of corpses have moved to the Sisters of EVE epic arc systems to do the exact same thing once again. This is forcing us to extend this ban to the Arnon system as well. Let me state very clearly that we do so with great reluctance. We do NOT like to impose rules and limitations like these upon the sandbox and we do not do so lightly. These measures are always debated hotly within our department and can often take multiple months of deliberation to make absolutely sure we are doing the right thing.

Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc. These systems are:

- Tar
- Harerget
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Lisudeh
- Sosh
- Manarq
- Chainelant

If there is a ban on griefing rookies in these systems, will there also be a ban on stuff like hulk mining? And I presume anyone flying a BS/T3 is fair game right?

Not that I personally ever set foot in high sec, but I wouldn't want to see these systems become a safe haven for people who aren't rookies.


My post very clearly mentions rookies. We want everyone to let new players acclimate to the game before they are thrown in with the sharks. By all means, gank, steal from, scam and whatever else you want to experienced players. They should know the crack of the whip.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2012-06-13 10:58:35 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:


Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc. These systems are:

- Tar
- Harerget
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Lisudeh
- Sosh
- Manarq
- Chainelant


Hek? a rooky system? WTF?

I do not like where you are going. Give the new people a better tutorial so they understand the consequences of their actions instead of putting up these artificial limitations.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.