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Maelstrom fit (what is Shield tanking?!)

Author
Liam Mirren
#21 - 2012-06-11 07:22:24 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Hoshi wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
Assuming a mission fit, anyone telling you to fit one of those ancillary shield boosters is an idiot. The cost to run one of those shield boosters is silly in a PVE situation and it's completely unneeded anyway.

A Cap Booster 400 cost around 5k, even if you use up a full cargohold of them it's only 200k. If it's the best fit or not can be discussed but calling the cost silly is just silly.


Just grab a BPO and make them yourself with some salvage.You don't need perfect skills to do it, industry 1 is all and you need If you salvage you also get them from the loot drops.


Opportunity cost, look it up.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#22 - 2012-06-11 13:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeril Malkyre
Since you're looking for a non-ridiculously priced fit:

[Maelstrom, broadside]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
[Mission specific hardener]
Large Shield Booster II
Large Shield Extender II
100MN Afterburner II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

I've flown this fit through Level 4's for over a year, never ran into any problems. It's over-tanked, but it's omni enough that I can jump into the next mission without much refit or thought. AC's are necessary practice for the Mach. You'll be fighting in falloff most of the time, so you learn to pick your ranges. I fought mostly Angels though, and they like to be up close and personal. Pulse the booster whenever you need a top off.

I've noticed Sansha BS's like to stay way out at range, so 1200's may be a better bet if you're running them constantly.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-11 17:08:48 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Since you're looking for a non-ridiculously priced fit:

[Maelstrom, broadside]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
[Mission specific hardener]
Large Shield Booster II
Large Shield Extender II
100MN Afterburner II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

I've flown this fit through Level 4's for over a year, never ran into any problems. It's over-tanked, but it's omni enough that I can jump into the next mission without much refit or thought. AC's are necessary practice for the Mach. You'll be fighting in falloff most of the time, so you learn to pick your ranges. I fought mostly Angels though, and they like to be up close and personal. Pulse the booster whenever you need a top off.

I've noticed Sansha BS's like to stay way out at range, so 1200's may be a better bet if you're running them constantly.


That's quite intense on ye olde Capacitor. Even when not running the Shield Booster, it only last roughly 10 minutes - and that's with several T1 mods because I can't quite fit T2 yet!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Liam Mirren
#24 - 2012-06-11 17:33:17 UTC
More importantly, it's a shitfit.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#25 - 2012-06-11 17:36:44 UTC
XL booster on a Mael.

Forget about Cap Stability. It's overrated. You're not going to leave the booster running all the time.

If cap stability is important to you, change the hardeners to specific ones, as they're cheaper to run.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Evil Stare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-06-11 17:39:40 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
When you start flying the Mael, use 1200s. They track way better than 1400s. When your skills are all up, switch to 800s. Mael really shines with ACs.

Also, Heavy Cap Booster is a must. This means no CCCS are needed. Try this fit.


[Maelstrom 800 ]

Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
'Stalwart' Particle Field Magnifier
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Kinetic Deflection Field I

1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
Drone Link Augmentor I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I

I've not tried them, but I am sure you could use an XL Ancillary Shield Booster instead of the Cap Booster.


A cap stable Mael is a gimped Mael.



50 shades of wtf is this?
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-06-11 17:41:19 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
XL booster on a Mael.

Forget about Cap Stability. It's overrated. You're not going to leave the booster running all the time.

If cap stability is important to you, change the hardeners to specific ones, as they're cheaper to run.


Being cap stable isn't important, but having some sort of buffer would be nice. The hardeners would need to be on throughout the mission, and most likely the afterburner too. If you suddenly need to flip that booster a few minutes in, you might be toast, no? Takes very little for it to drain the entire cap on its own.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Evil Stare
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-06-11 19:23:18 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
XL booster on a Mael.

Forget about Cap Stability. It's overrated. You're not going to leave the booster running all the time.

If cap stability is important to you, change the hardeners to specific ones, as they're cheaper to run.


Being cap stable isn't important, but having some sort of buffer would be nice. The hardeners would need to be on throughout the mission, and most likely the afterburner too. If you suddenly need to flip that booster a few minutes in, you might be toast, no? Takes very little for it to drain the entire cap on its own.



Pve in general is about Rep and Resist, not buffer. The maelstrom will have plenty of buffer. If you are running out of cap with just hardners on, then you have other issues that need to be addressed first.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-06-11 19:29:08 UTC
Evil Stare wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
XL booster on a Mael.

Forget about Cap Stability. It's overrated. You're not going to leave the booster running all the time.

If cap stability is important to you, change the hardeners to specific ones, as they're cheaper to run.


Being cap stable isn't important, but having some sort of buffer would be nice. The hardeners would need to be on throughout the mission, and most likely the afterburner too. If you suddenly need to flip that booster a few minutes in, you might be toast, no? Takes very little for it to drain the entire cap on its own.



Pve in general is about Rep and Resist, not buffer. The maelstrom will have plenty of buffer. If you are running out of cap with just hardners on, then you have other issues that need to be addressed first.


Not so much the Hardners as the Afterburner+Hardners.

What a caphog.

How are Cap recharge rigs on a Maelstrom?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Yoshite McLulzypants
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-06-12 03:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Yoshite McLulzypants
Depends. You need to stack enough negative cap recharge time stat to reach a critical mass depending on your peak draw. Assuming all slots are equal (they aren't) a mid gives 15%, a low gives 24%, and a CCC I rig gives 15%. So, while cap power relays provide the greatest cap recharge time reduction (without nerfing buffer like flux coils) a gyro could also use that slot, giving more value to that slot on many fits. Rig slots are good for cap recharge (or buffer) because energy grid rigs have no drawbacks. Sometimes adding raw capacity with memory cells is better depending on expected draw amounts. Just play around with eft. You have all the cap skills at least 4? Including fuel conservation and shield compensation?

I was bored enough to put together an example.

[Maelstrom, low skill derp]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

100MN Afterburner II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Capacitor Battery II

800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L
800mm Heavy Prototype Repeating Siege Cannon, EMP L

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Perma runs the ab and hardeners at 67% cap. You have about 2:30 of shield boost (~540 dps vs 60/40 em/therm) if you turn it on at 67% and leave everything running. This is what you wanted to do? Lasts longer than a cap recharger and 3x ccc rigs would in those slots, but is still a terrible fit to mission in chasing around long range blood/sanshas. Final kick in the nuts would be the cap battery doesn't work on npc neuting but i've never tried. Use scout guns if you can but it sounds like you can't really afford to lose (and therefore undock) a mael yet anyway. I'd overtank my first one if I was a broke newcomer again and that means high resists and permaboosts. Later on when you are more established with high support skills and T2 turrets then dps and the fact you've run this mission/plex a hundred times becomes your best tank.

*edit* all values listed are from a "most lvl 4's" character.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-06-12 07:17:35 UTC
I dunno. Maybe I'm just spoiled from being able to perma-run everything on my Armorcane...

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-06-12 14:18:34 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I dunno. Maybe I'm just spoiled from being able to perma-run everything on my Armorcane...

Yep.

The bigger the ship, the harder it is to be cap stable.

You can either keep trying to break the wall by slamming your head into it, or you can learn new tricks. Your choice.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-06-12 17:35:03 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I dunno. Maybe I'm just spoiled from being able to perma-run everything on my Armorcane...

Yep.

The bigger the ship, the harder it is to be cap stable.

You can either keep trying to break the wall by slamming your head into it, or you can learn new tricks. Your choice.


Any tips then? I don't really dare fly it in missions as I have no clue how to use the shield booster, and other active shield tanking mechanics.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-06-12 18:50:31 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I dunno. Maybe I'm just spoiled from being able to perma-run everything on my Armorcane...

Yep.

The bigger the ship, the harder it is to be cap stable.

You can either keep trying to break the wall by slamming your head into it, or you can learn new tricks. Your choice.


Any tips then? I don't really dare fly it in missions as I have no clue how to use the shield booster, and other active shield tanking mechanics.

Grab a cyclone and go run some l3 in it.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-06-12 18:59:08 UTC
That's not really in my budget atm.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#36 - 2012-06-12 19:21:17 UTC
Just pulse the booster every so often. and get used to not running the AB all the time.

Make sure you don't run your cap below around 33% and you should be fine.

Even with an AB on all the time, you'll be close to the slowest thing on the field. When you arrive in a mission, burn away from everything, until you're at a range you're comfortable with. Pop the faster stuff, then the bigger stuff.


This is Mael specific, of course.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Flakey Foont
#37 - 2012-06-13 01:31:35 UTC
Tor,

Like most Minnies I too was an armor guy until I got to BS. Do the training, learn to pulse and you will never go back...
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-06-13 02:43:55 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
Tor,

Like most Minnies I too was an armor guy until I got to BS. Do the training, learn to pulse and you will never go back...

You could go armor tank with Fleet Tempest: ab, dual lar, cap stable fleet tempest

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-06-13 07:11:32 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Flakey Foont wrote:
Tor,

Like most Minnies I too was an armor guy until I got to BS. Do the training, learn to pulse and you will never go back...

You could go armor tank with Fleet Tempest: ab, dual lar, cap stable fleet tempest


Nah, I'm planning on moving on up into a Vargur at some point (far away in time, lol), so learning to shield tank - especially active - would probably benefit me in the long run.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#40 - 2012-06-13 07:18:55 UTC
My best advice in learning to fly an unstable shield tank: set auto-repeat for your shield booster to OFF. Alas for the poor Sleipnir that taught me that lesson; may he rest in peace.

It's seriously not that bad once you get used to it. Just don't make a habit of, say, replying to forum posts while you're flying.
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