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War Dec's ---

First post
Author
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#1 - 2012-06-11 18:09:24 UTC
The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.

Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.

We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#2 - 2012-06-11 18:10:50 UTC
CraftyCroc wrote:
The latest update is great however I feel you have somewhat shafted smaller corps when it comes to war dec'ing.

Two large alliances have come into the area and we have been sparring with them since they have arrived. A decision was made to war dec them and the cost has been quoted as 300m a week.

We estimate it would have cost us in the past circa 50m. Is it working as intended? I hope not.

It certainly is.

Talk to their CEOs/directors.

Maybe they'll oblige you by footing the cost for the war.

From their end it will be much cheaper.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#3 - 2012-06-11 18:12:51 UTC
Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.

Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?

Cavel Avada
Sons of the Pagan Sky
#4 - 2012-06-11 18:16:06 UTC
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-11 18:25:32 UTC
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#6 - 2012-06-11 18:30:33 UTC
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


Why is that? Why should some people pay more than others? Better yet, why should people with little resources pay more than people with a lot of resources. Alliances are too cheap and easy to start and maintain. If I can have a solo alliance of my own, I consider this feature to be bugged.

If you can carebear in null all day every day with your 1k ratters and plex runners, there should be at least some risk in your game when you're going to move your spoils to Jita to get rich off of.

War deccing an alliance should have no cost.
Phugoid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-11 18:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Phugoid
masternerdguy wrote:
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.


masternerdguy, lemme correct you if i may :)

1) Germany did not declare war on Europe. They, along with Russia, invaded Poland, which caused England and France to declare war on Germany. Even tho Russia 2 weeks later invaded eastern Poland, England and France ignored that fact. In the British and French eyes, it was not OK for Germany to invade Poland, but they had no issue with the Russian invasion of the other half of Poland. Go figure.

2) For almost a year after this "declaration of war", England and France basically did nothing, especially the French. The result was an easy an conquest of western Europe by Germany, once western Poland was conqured. By this time Russia had all of eastern Poland, but England and France had no problem with that.

3) When Japan attacked the US (Pearl Harbor) almost 2 years later, the US declared war on Japan of course. The US would still have NOT have gone to war in Europe even at the time, had Germany not declared war on the US (a big mistake by Germany)...

sorry for the off topic of the OP..... :)

Flugzeugf├╝hrer

SetrakDark
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-06-11 18:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: SetrakDark
The reasoning is that you are, in effect, "buying" targets. The more targets you want, the more you have to pay. If you can't afford enough targets with your small population, pool your resources with similar people, with the effect being that you are providing more counter-targets in turn.

It's a sensible system for what CCP is trying to do, not so much for the traditional hisec wardec corp; but **** those guys anyway, they're the reason the mechanics were changed in the first place.
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2012-06-11 22:10:07 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

It certainly is.

Talk to their CEOs/directors.

Maybe they'll oblige you by footing the cost for the war.

From their end it will be much cheaper.


We're funding the dec- sometimes Diplomacy will not work unless it's at Gunpoint

Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


Ridiculous
War is expensive yes - ships get lost/supply chains get broken/ammo gets shot (the list goes on)
10 man corps should be able to dec whoever they need - as should 1000 strong alliances

To put it in dumb:
300m a week wtf

THE L0CK wrote:
Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.

Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.


Stand strong brother

Vicky Somers wrote:
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


War deccing an alliance should have no cost.


Agreed .. The war should be the cost

XavierVE
No Corporation for Old Spacemen
#10 - 2012-06-11 22:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: XavierVE
The new test server "fixes" so that larger entities have an even greater advantage with war-decs is beyond the pale. We haven't seen dev favoritism on this level since the t20 incident, and even that probably wasn't as blatant as the pile of **** they just dropped on the test server to favor alliances that CCP holds in high regard.

CCP had been changing for the better and making the game more balanced in regards to war-decs, now we're back to the same old garbage, changing the rules to benefit the largest alliances because they whined and cried that smaller entities found a way to even the playing field.

And the dev closed the thread because he didn't like the feedback he was getting. Going back to the usual old arrogance that spawned the Incarna riots.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#11 - 2012-06-11 22:26:21 UTC
Make an alt corp. Wardec it, have the other side join as an ally.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

XxDEATH SN1PAxX
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-06-11 23:13:03 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.


And were Europe carebears?
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-06-13 03:45:54 UTC
I support this crafty message.

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-06-13 03:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ris Dnalor
masternerdguy wrote:
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


WWII was basically Germany wardeccing Europe. Not unrealistic at all.



War deccing a superior force is and should be expensive, but the cost shouldn't be the "declaration". it should be the execution of the war.


However, in reality the fee we pay to CONCORD that allows us to have a war in otherwise 'secure' space, is essentially a bribe, that results in CONCORD looking the other way during the war period. As these things go, I could see how a large corporation might have enough leverage in such shady dealings as to get preferential treatment here.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-06-13 04:31:37 UTC
I just wish the war dec mechanic and all other associated mechanics with it were refined and intuitive. Fun for both sides and gave everyone a rock hard boner when thinking about war decs in this game.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#16 - 2012-06-13 04:46:59 UTC
CraftyCroc wrote:
Vicky Somers wrote:
Cavel Avada wrote:
I see this as working as intended. War is an expensive prospect. 10-man corps should not be able to cheaply wardec a corp 10x their size. It's just unrealistic.


War deccing an alliance should have no cost.


Agreed .. The war should be the cost

Remove standings and insurance.

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#17 - 2012-06-13 05:30:20 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Sadly it is working as intended. Many of us tried to give insight on how it would kill small gang warfare but sadly nothing was changed other than it costing us an arm and a leg and the defender can bring even more targets on the table for us.

Unless you are a market guru or love purchasing plex's, small man is dead.


highsec pvp =/= small gang warfare

its a lot closer to a pillowfight with anal retentive referees.
Xulgar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-06-13 05:40:21 UTC
Signing in support of all things CraftyCroc related.
Ryuichi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-06-13 05:43:37 UTC
Anytng that confuses our head diplomate any more than usual must be a bad thing.
Jhango Fett
X-Zest Voyage
#20 - 2012-06-13 05:54:42 UTC
If 300 mill is an issue for you I suggest you do not start wars.
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