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Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#221 - 2012-06-08 22:55:43 UTC

Disregard That wrote:

Aoki Kenzo wrote:

Toroup wrote:

Yes, because anyone who doesn't enjoy the exact same gameplay that you do must be wrong. And people will adopt a gameplay that they don't enjoy instead of just leaving right?

Did you ever think that maybe some people play Eve because they want to be a miner? Crazy I know. It''s like SWG, some people wanted to be Uncle Owen and not Luke Skywaker - SOE made the decision that everyone had to fit into 8 cookie cutters and you see how well that worked out for them.

Gameplay restriction - > Player Attrition -> Less Revenue -> Less Development -> No Game Growth

Go ahead, grief more - when all that is left is griefers and ships are going for Billions of ISK because supply has collapsed, at least you can look at your epeen while singing "I did it my way".

You, mi friendly comrade, are right.

Let's say he is.

He and everyone like him got ran out of a game saying "I played it my way" in this scenario.

Not much room for :smug: in that, is there?

HTFU is CCP's message to the players.

Anybody still whining is doing it wrong.

Saying that people need to adapt and have that be the end of it seems the same as thinking that CCP believes there is not an imbalance between in space activities as far as expected ability to defend ones self are concerned. Considering that CCP has added concord and changed them over time (and has further plans to do so) could mean that they believe they don't have the balance between action and consequence right, or just that they are fine tuning mechanics. But it would seem a bad idea to think that a large, concerted effort targeted at specific activities, if strong enough and held long enough to cause a significant affect to subs or players actually logging in, would never force them to re-evaluate that balance again.

Toroup

Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage

Likes received: 85

#222 - 2012-06-08 23:13:36 UTC

Disregard That wrote:

Toroup wrote:

300k subs say you're wrong.
12k new subs last month (estimated from survey data) also say you're quite mistaken.

Dude - 300k subs in like 9 years is laughable. Back in 2009, it had 280k so a 8% growth in 3 years is what you're going for here? 12k news subs with probably only a 30% retention due to learning curve is nothing to close your eyes about while touching yourself tonight.

End of the day, EVE is a niche game. I enjoy (having a degree in economics and being an Economic Analyst professionally) but things that make it more of niche by alienating a portion of the game community is not going to strengthen your argument.

Toroup

Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage

Likes received: 85

#223 - 2012-06-08 23:22:29 UTC

Disregard That wrote:

Aoki Kenzo wrote:

Toroup wrote:

You, mi friendly comrade, are right.

Right....you do know that this is a game right? You do realize that people use it as a form of entertainment and when it no longer continues to be entertaining they leave right?

It has nothing to do with HTFU - I do that in real life and am winning there. When I come play a game (i.e THIS), I want to enjoy myself, if I'm not it's not like I'm going to say "oh no, I must be a failure because I don't want to play the same way that someone else does". I'm going say "huh, fun while it lasted but I work too hard in real life to have my form of entertainment be dictated to me by some asshat. Let's try something new".

Whatever, man. I'm still playing and I will continue to play until I don't want to. Certain behaviors of the community may hasten that date and that's ok. I'm just saying that it would be foolish of you to expect that people change their play style to something that they don't enjoy instead of simply leaving. When that happens, there is less revenue meaning less development and people asking "where did everyone go?"

POCKOCMOC Inc. 188
Cloned S0ul POCKOCMOC Inc. Likes received: 188	#224 - 2012-06-08 23:26:51 UTC \| Edited by: Cloned S0ul Stop panic all, stay around fact EvE is santbox, people can play like they want, dont be hipocrit, let them play like they want, you dont like eve player base behaviour, here is solutuion, uninstal More ganks more kamikaze and kiling miners isynt solution for yours problem, here enought bad people in low- null space who wait for you...

Romar Agent

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 83

#225 - 2012-06-09 07:21:50 UTC

SmilingVagrant wrote:

Romar Agent wrote:

masternerdguy wrote:

... Fun fact: The real world, where you have a job and taxes, is a pure sandbox. You *can* do anything, but you must acquire the prerequisite capital (resources), team (friends), and knowledge (science) to do it. ...

Aaand, I'm protected by forces paid for by my taxes... Which of course has nothing to do with say, the concept of Highsec and Concord...

This is now how it works actually. I can run up to a person and shoot them in the head. No magic cop is going to pop out of thin air and stop the bullet from killing them. What is going to happen is the police and judicial system is going to do their best to ensure that I get punished for that crime: Hence concord.

You could wiffle waffle and make claims about how judicial sentencing is a bit more final than what concord does: But given the rates of recidivism in violent offenders: It's really bullshit. Also we exist in a system where the victim happily comes back to life after the "Fatal" shot. So the harshness of the punishment needs to also mellow out in order to reflect that.

That's suicide ganking for you - unless you're doing it in a very bad neighbourhood (say Lowsec), you are likely to end up in jail. Then after time, you come back.

David Cedarbridge

Republic Military School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 272

#226 - 2012-06-10 02:27:09 UTC

Viktor Goldheart wrote:

A good way to make people like me get into PVP way more is to remove attribute implants from the game, and if possible the whole attribute system, all it does is cause headaches and petitions.

And don't start with the "but you have jump clones" bullshit, jump clones have a HUGE timer, and by the time the timer expires, there is already another fleet I have to get into the next day, and it's basically like not being in a +4clone at all.

Not to mention that every time a fleet is made, 80% of the people on ANY alliance'scomms go like "sorry, but my clone timer is not ready..." which leads to less PVP.

So the fixes to this BS would be:

1) Remove attribute implants and just give +5 to everyone from the start, permanently.

OR

2) Remove attribute implants AND THE WHOLE ATTRIBUTE SYSTEM, and just have set training times from 1 to 5 on all skill tiers to balance it. (hardwires would just have their attribute bonus removed, easy).

OR

3) Make pods immune to warp bubbles (make up a lore reason like "They are too small for the frequency of the sphere to affect their warp drive, which is a special, miniaturized Jovian version), because getting caught in a bubble when your ship explodes pretty much means that you will get podded 99% of the time, hell, it even happens on the test server where there is no real need to pod people.

OR

4) Make the god damn jump clone timer way less, like 6 hours, and that could be lowered to 1 hour by training a skill to lvl 5, -1 hour per level.

It is absolutely ******* ******** that I have to worry about losing my ship and fittings and 120+ million Isk for the attribute implant set + my ******* expensive clone every time I get podded, just for the sake of not training slowly as ****, my main is ******** enough as it is due to the fact that I had to quit Eve for like 2 years in increments for RL reasons.

Seriously, flying a BS or a stealth bomber or a BC or interceptor tackler in a fleet, and basically losing 4-500 mil worth of isk per death is bullshit, some of us have real lives and we can't afford to lose **** tons of isk like that.

I can see why you would be afraid to post this on your main. I would definitely like to find that main and repeatedly pod them.

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#227 - 2012-06-12 14:11:47 UTC

Toroup wrote:

Disregard That wrote:

Toroup wrote:

300k subs say you're wrong.
12k new subs last month (estimated from survey data) also say you're quite mistaken.

Just FYI, the current Sub count is inching towards 450k, and EvE is the third largest Paid Western MMO(WoW and SWOTOR ahead). 5th including FTP (add Runescape and Second Life).

EvE's about as niche an MMO as Volkswagon is a Car manufacturer.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Doomheim 203
Russell Casey Doomheim Likes received: 203	#228 - 2012-06-12 14:34:03 UTC You PvP every time you undock. Don't know where this survey comes from.

Darth Gustav

Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting

Likes received: 2,874

#229 - 2012-06-12 18:13:57 UTC | Edited by: ISD Stensson

Toroup wrote:

Are you a good sport, sport?

I like how you say that if you lose at a game, you will quit. Then you go on to say that if enough people lose, they will all quit.

The old "everybody will eventually quit" bit is getting pretty lame. So is people telling gankers it's "just a game" and then stomping their virtual feet on the forums and going off to pout like children when they lose.

If you don't think the rules of the game are fair and that players playing within those rules are justified, why continue to post here to tell us what a bad sport you really are?

BTW I would imagine the quoted poster probably does realize this is just a game. That's what makes this response so damned comedic.

Edit: Pyramid quoting removed - ISD Stensson

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom


Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation Likes received: 2,014	#230 - 2012-06-12 19:37:17 UTC \| Edited by: Tyberius Franklin Russell Casey wrote: You PvP every time you undock. Don't know where this survey comes from. From a couple thousand of our fellow capsuleers. And it doesn't say that people don't PvP, but rather that it's not the original reason they chose to sub.

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#231 - 2012-06-12 19:49:52 UTC

Darth Gustav wrote:

Toroup wrote:

I wasn't aware that not liking the balance of mechanics in a game was being a poor sport. If you aren't having fun, be it due to being particularly bad at the game, feeling it's imbalanced, or just more of an effort than you want in a recreational activity then there is no shame or risk of being a "bad sport" in quitting.

Darth Gustav

Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting

Likes received: 2,874

#232 - 2012-06-12 19:59:18 UTC | Edited by: Darth Gustav

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Let me requote what he said and to what I was responding so that you can see how out-of-context your reply really is:

Toroup wrote:

He was complaining about other players' behaviors, not game mechanics. As such, your post is purely ridiculous. He agreed he liked the rules of the game when he subbed, when he sold minerals on the market, when he paid his sub and logged into game and when he undocked in space. Quitting at those points is within the bounds of good sportsmanship. Sure.

But complaining that players who are allowed to do something by rules he agreed to are actually, in fact, doing what they are allowed to do by the mechanics and then qq'ing "It's just a game!" is not what your post is talking about, is it?

He plainly says that he won't adapt his playstyle to accomodate the presence of other players and their footprints in his game.

That's not the same as disagreeing with the game's mechanics and quitting due to them.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#233 - 2012-06-12 20:12:38 UTC

Darth Gustav wrote:

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Let me requote what he said and to what I was responding so that you can see how out-of-context your reply really is:

Toroup wrote:

He was complaining about other players' behaviors, not game mechanics. As such, your post is purely ridiculous. He agreed he liked the rules of the game when he subbed, when he sold minerals on the market, when he paid his sub and logged into game and when he undocked in space. Quitting at those points is within the bounds of good sportsmanship. Sure.

But complaining that players who are allowed to do something by rules he agreed to are actually, in fact, doing what they are allowed to do by the mechanics and then qq'ing "It's just a game!" is not what your post is talking about, is it?

He plainly says that he won't adapt his playstyle to accomodate the presence of other players and their footprints in his game.

That's not the same as not agreeing with the game's mechanics and quitting due to them.

As I read it, and now reread it, it seems entirely relevant.

This game is not static by way of mechanics of player activity. What may suffice as far as rules are concerned now may be shed in a different light should my activities be the subject of the next wide scale attack on a particular group. At that point it may be necessary to reevaluate how and potentially if I continue to play should the how remove the enjoyable aspects to a significant degree and/or replace them with a greater deal of tedium.

But as stated above, this isn't the same as saying the game itself is bad or wrong. Nor is it the same as saying that the game should change. If a group I cannot counter decides to interfere with me to the point that my ability to operate is severely diminished then great. This is the nature of the game. But that nature has a much lower effect on my decision to stay than my ability to enjoy the game. Therefore it's entirely possible for the mechanics to remain exactly the same yet have me change my mind on the choice to keep playing.

After all it is just a game. It's only worth it when it's enjoyable. I things change I can adapt. If the community changes I can adapt. But, if adaptation comes to the point of removing that joy then there is no longer reason for me to be here.

Darth Gustav

Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting

Likes received: 2,874

#234 - 2012-06-12 20:15:36 UTC | Edited by: Darth Gustav

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Darth Gustav wrote:

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Let me requote what he said and to what I was responding so that you can see how out-of-context your reply really is:

Toroup wrote:

He was complaining about other players' behaviors, not game mechanics. As such, your post is purely ridiculous. He agreed he liked the rules of the game when he subbed, when he sold minerals on the market, when he paid his sub and logged into game and when he undocked in space. Quitting at those points is within the bounds of good sportsmanship. Sure.

But complaining that players who are allowed to do something by rules he agreed to are actually, in fact, doing what they are allowed to do by the mechanics and then qq'ing "It's just a game!" is not what your post is talking about, is it?

He plainly says that he won't adapt his playstyle to accomodate the presence of other players and their footprints in his game.

That's not the same as not agreeing with the game's mechanics and quitting due to them.

I agree with everything you say here. Now how do you feel about a player's choice to whine in public about inability to adapt and how we should change or he's leaving and what that says about his sportsmanship?

Because that's what I was addressing. He can make his choice, that's great. But he could do it in a way that showed at least a modicum of class.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#235 - 2012-06-12 20:23:29 UTC | Edited by: ISD Stensson

Darth Gustav wrote:

I didn't pick it up from your original post I responded to, but I must concede you point here. A personal decision to quit is best made in silence IMHO.

Edit: Pyramid quoting removed - ISD Stensson


Darth Gustav Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting Likes received: 2,874	#236 - 2012-06-12 20:25:56 UTC Thank you for seeing my point. +1 to you sir. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Perkone Caldari State 803
Asuri Kinnes Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 803	#237 - 2012-06-13 00:22:18 UTC 1 Darth Gustav wrote: Thank you for seeing my point. +1 to you sir. GOOD LORD! Manners in MY Eve??? We really have arrived at the end days... Bob is the god of Wormholes. That's all you need to know.


Darth Gustav Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting Likes received: 2,874	#238 - 2012-06-13 03:07:52 UTC Asuri Kinnes wrote: Darth Gustav wrote: Thank you for seeing my point. +1 to you sir. GOOD LORD! Manners in MY Eve??? We really have arrived at the end days... One does not accept a concession without dignity. Anything less would be uncivilized. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#239 - 2012-06-13 03:10:51 UTC

Darth Gustav wrote:

Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Darth Gustav wrote:

Thank you for seeing my point. +1 to you sir.

GOOD LORD! Shocked

Manners in *MY* Eve???

We really have arrived at the end days...

Sad

One does not accept a concession without dignity.

You misspelt "gloating"


Darth Gustav Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting Likes received: 2,874	#240 - 2012-06-13 03:14:12 UTC \| Edited by: ISD Stensson RubyPorto wrote: You misspelt "gloating" Maybe I did. Maybe I did... <.< >.> Edit: Pyramid quoting removed - ISD Stensson He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

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EVE General Discussion

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage

POCKOCMOC Inc.

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Republic Military School

Minmatar Republic

RubysRhymes

Doomheim

Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting

Perkone

Caldari State