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Issues thread for the new font on SiSi

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Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#161 - 2011-10-05 23:18:13 UTC
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
Did not mean to. That is good news assuming me can make it as small as it is now. Last thing we need are our chat windows taking up more of the screen.

The font in member list panel of chats has been growing (and +/- buttons wont affect those fonts)... This means that if you want to see longer names like before, you need to shift the vertical divider little bit to the left. This would obviously shrink your chat box and to keep that in original size, you would need to increase the size of your chat window...

Easiest thing with that probably is to do nothing and learn to live with little shorter names. At least the beginning is easier to see now with font twice as large than in chat itself :) Not a game breaker but dunno about being an big improvement either.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Kal Vekstras
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2011-10-06 00:46:08 UTC
Every issue I've found has already been mentioned, but for what it's worth, I'd like to add my opinion and respectfully disagree with the new font. I don't have the data to claim which way the majority of players fall on the issue, but it seems fairly split from this thread alone.

It's a wonderful thing that CCP is listening to people's complaints, and I recognize that some letters/numbers were very similar, but I've personally never had a problem with it and love the style.

More than anything, I'm startled that the dev response to implementing an option to switch between the two was so adamant. Is there a coding restriction that would make having both fonts available difficult?
James Duar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2011-10-06 01:24:52 UTC
I like that CCP is trying, but this new font is horrible.

Please please PLEASE just let us use any installed system font (this is basic functionality to do with OpenGL and DirectX) and then supply an "EVE font" that you want as a default.
M4cD0g
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#164 - 2011-10-06 02:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: M4cD0g
There are a few simple rules to problems like this and they are very much Industry standard if it comes to IT.


1. Change the REAL issue not the backend.

In this case, have a Font artist work on the existing font to fix "I1, O0, 5S, 6G&, 8B" and make the font 1-2px bigger. This is the REAL issue.


2. Evaluate if a complete change of the backend fixes problems beyond the initial one or introduces more problems.

In your case, the font change does not fix additional issues. It fixes the problems but creates a huge amount of new problems and legibility issues that you did not have before.
If you would have changed the backend to make the GUI scaleable, that would be ok, since it fixes a lot more issues, sadly thats a different Project, but choosing a quick fix over a long term solid fix is NEVER the right choice!


3. Does the change stay true to the original design?

You can't change any system without retaining its Identity. If you do that you are in a world of trouble. If you have a SciFi theme, stick to it. The new font breaks this rule.


4. If your feedback essentially stays the same don't change it.

Simply meaning, if you do a poll and 20% say they hate GREEN. You remove all GREEN, do another poll and suddenly 20% say they miss GREEN. In this scenario you did nothing, might as well just not bothered.
In your case, i bet that at least the same amount that complained about font size and "I1, O0, 5S, 6G&, 8B" are now complaining about the lost screen space, ugly and not SciFi enough new font.

Sincerely,
M4
Sethose Olderon
Honourable Company of Gentlemen
#165 - 2011-10-06 05:07:52 UTC
As a Graphic Designer, and a Type Designer, this font makes my eyes bleed. Please go back and hire a real Type Designer and try again!

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#166 - 2011-10-06 09:59:58 UTC
Sethose Olderon wrote:
As a Graphic Designer, and a Type Designer, this font makes my eyes bleed. Please go back and hire a real Type Designer and try again!


I'm pretty sure the graphic designer/type designer who made the font doesn't like some of your work either Blink

Thankfully, not everybody has the same taste in everything, is what I'm trying to say Big smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Milann Nightwind
Void of Eden.
The Initiative.
#167 - 2011-10-06 11:06:04 UTC
Something came to my mind when you said that this will speed up the loading. Since brackets seem to be made up of text rather than images, will this make things run smoother with brackets on in space as well? If not, then perhaps you could look into whether something similar can be done in that area based on the same solution? :)
Kozmic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#168 - 2011-10-06 12:54:04 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:

uhm I don't know where you heard that but the fontsize functionality in the chat will just stay as it is.. no need to be spreading rumors here What?


While you're at it, please add an option to remove character portraits from chat windows.
Kal Vekstras
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2011-10-06 15:17:58 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:


I'm pretty sure the graphic designer/type designer who made the font doesn't like some of your work either Blink

Thankfully, not everybody has the same taste in everything, is what I'm trying to say Big smile



I'm sure that this is true, and of course people's taste's will differ, as the replies on this thread show. Some love the new font, some love the old font.

What I'm afraid of is that after having paid a graphic/type designer for this new font, CCP will be reluctant to let that money go to waste, even to the extent of ignoring how many players my oppose the change.

Not that opposition should ever be rude, and not that a majority like or dislike it. But if it should come down to as many players disliking the change as liking it, then money will have been spent for no net benefit.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#170 - 2011-10-06 15:30:29 UTC
Kal Vekstras wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


I'm pretty sure the graphic designer/type designer who made the font doesn't like some of your work either Blink

Thankfully, not everybody has the same taste in everything, is what I'm trying to say Big smile



I'm sure that this is true, and of course people's taste's will differ, as the replies on this thread show. Some love the new font, some love the old font.

What I'm afraid of is that after having paid a graphic/type designer for this new font, CCP will be reluctant to let that money go to waste, even to the extent of ignoring how many players my oppose the change.

Not that opposition should ever be rude, and not that a majority like or dislike it. But if it should come down to as many players disliking the change as liking it, then money will have been spent for no net benefit.


A lot of people hated the old font when that was added too.. and a lot of people liked it..

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
botcher0
WYNX Industries
#171 - 2011-10-06 16:52:47 UTC
I appreciate your effort, the Fonts are crucial to a game like EVE, where you have to read that much in the interface. Lol

But the one shown in the Screenshots are way to round and have too much squiggles (I hope its the right word). It would fit good to a Fantasy Game, but not to a Sci-Fi Game like EVE.
Kal Vekstras
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2011-10-06 17:14:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal Vekstras
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Kal Vekstras wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


I'm pretty sure the graphic designer/type designer who made the font doesn't like some of your work either Blink

Thankfully, not everybody has the same taste in everything, is what I'm trying to say Big smile



I'm sure that this is true, and of course people's taste's will differ, as the replies on this thread show. Some love the new font, some love the old font.

What I'm afraid of is that after having paid a graphic/type designer for this new font, CCP will be reluctant to let that money go to waste, even to the extent of ignoring how many players my oppose the change.

Not that opposition should ever be rude, and not that a majority like or dislike it. But if it should come down to as many players disliking the change as liking it, then money will have been spent for no net benefit.


A lot of people hated the old font when that was added too.. and a lot of people liked it..



Then the biggest concern at the moment seems to be the lack of data, although I'm sure CCP collects its own. Maybe a poll for the old and proposed font styles could give an indication of player preference to both the devs and the players and at least quell dissent from one side or the other. :/

Alternatively, I'm still most strongly in favor of giving the option to each player personally. It seems like a win-win scenario that would please all involved, but I don't think we've gotten any clarification on why that wasn't going to be an option. There may very well be coding issues that I'm unaware of, but from a layman's perspective, it seems like there's no downside.
Thurken
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2011-10-06 19:26:45 UTC
The font on Sisi is better readable than the old one, but looks a little bit big sometimes.


I prefer monospaced fonts like Dina: http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Jibz/Dina/
You can draw nice tables with thaat, which would be awesome in EvE.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2011-10-06 19:41:41 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Kal Vekstras wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


I'm pretty sure the graphic designer/type designer who made the font doesn't like some of your work either Blink

Thankfully, not everybody has the same taste in everything, is what I'm trying to say Big smile



I'm sure that this is true, and of course people's taste's will differ, as the replies on this thread show. Some love the new font, some love the old font.

What I'm afraid of is that after having paid a graphic/type designer for this new font, CCP will be reluctant to let that money go to waste, even to the extent of ignoring how many players my oppose the change.

Not that opposition should ever be rude, and not that a majority like or dislike it. But if it should come down to as many players disliking the change as liking it, then money will have been spent for no net benefit.


A lot of people hated the old font when that was added too.. and a lot of people liked it..


Quit trying to justify or rationalize using this new font. The current font was implemented 7 years ago? Are you kidding me that you are comparing that font to this one? We have played for years with the old one, and love it or hate it, it is better than this new one. Quit tryign to tell yourself we are wrong. This new font sucks. We are the customers, we are right. You are here to make a font we approve of, not you.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#175 - 2011-10-06 23:13:20 UTC
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:


Quit trying to justify or rationalize using this new font. The current font was implemented 7 years ago? Are you kidding me that you are comparing that font to this one? We have played for years with the old one, and love it or hate it, it is better than this new one. Quit tryign to tell yourself we are wrong. This new font sucks. We are the customers, we are right. You are here to make a font we approve of, not you.


this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

the new font is an obvious improvement despite some flaws and your self-entitled tantrums aren't helping the designers figure out the tweaks they need to fix before launch

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#176 - 2011-10-06 23:15:34 UTC
also punkturis added ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ into the new font so step off

~hi~
Lieutenant Brooker
Calamitous Nephropidae Ltd.
#177 - 2011-10-07 01:08:50 UTC
Personally, I don't like this new font at all. Seems to round and childish to me for some reason; the current font looks great and matches more so, I think. It looks more sci-fi as opposed to this new stuff. I've always liked the smaller text.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2011-10-07 02:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn
The Mittani wrote:
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:


Quit trying to justify or rationalize using this new font. The current font was implemented 7 years ago? Are you kidding me that you are comparing that font to this one? We have played for years with the old one, and love it or hate it, it is better than this new one. Quit tryign to tell yourself we are wrong. This new font sucks. We are the customers, we are right. You are here to make a font we approve of, not you.


this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

the new font is an obvious improvement despite some flaws and your self-entitled tantrums aren't helping the designers figure out the tweaks they need to fix before launch


I don't feel bad Mittens. The existing font is fine, they just need slight tweaks to it. Not a complete revamp. Adding your oh so loved tildes is great and all, but there is no need to make the overview look like crap and make it need to be way bigger than it is already. I have given plenty of constructive feedback about the font, as many others have as well. Primarily, make it smaller, tighter, and more like the one we have, but make zeros and ohs look a bit different. Huge changes, and a total revamp are not required. The aesthetics of this new font are atrocious. You must agree. No one would ever say, "man, I love that font, I wish I could use it to type emails, or use it on this forum". In fact, this forum font is great, use it in game. The one being shown is so god awful terrible I can't even begin to express my dislike of it.

All of this could be solved, very easily, by making the current font or the new font a choice. Seriously, no one has any reason to complain if both are available. Same as Incarna should have been.

Good CSM, and I appreciate your efforts, but yeah, don't care about what you think about my posts or my feelings about this new font. You can nerf my super all you want, as they have hurt this game, but nerf my font, when it is not needed at all, and I will ***** and moan like a little girl with a scraped knee.

All in all, this is just like the new turret icons which are being reverted to the old. Crap.
Athreya
YTM Corporation
#179 - 2011-10-07 09:40:25 UTC
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
All of this could be solved, very easily, by making the current font or the new font a choice. Seriously, no one has any reason to complain if both are available
I think there are two different versions of GUI (english/deutch, russian) and devs trying to use newer russian for all languages to reduce workload in the future. Otherwise why dont just stay with old font and fix problems in it. Probably not compatible. Roll
Rinkata Kimiku
R Metal
#180 - 2011-10-07 10:46:23 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
A lot of people hated the old font when that was added too.. and a lot of people liked it..


So, make an option to choose font. Those who like old one, can keep it, others may use new one.

And guys, i mean capsuleers in the thread, be easy, please. Don't need so much aggression.
And sorry for my English. )