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Ship Building

Author
Cosmic Tycoon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-12 13:52:05 UTC
I used to play eve about two years ago and made ISK to fund pvp by ship building, a few BS and BC built and sold here and I could buy a nice ship.

However there then came a day when it was impossible (even with level 5 skills) for me to build for a profit anymore. Getting bored fo waiting for a turn in the market I just quit eve and I'm back two years later..

However even with Production Efficiency V and Blueprint copies of 100 material levels, I still can't make any profilt or not enough to justify hauling minerals around in a slow ass freighter....

It seems the mineral price has gone up Trit was about 4.25 per unit, now it's about 6.25, and although the ship prices have gone up they haven't risen enough. As a result I see a lot of cruises, even BS on the market in Jita that are not in BULK sale, just the odd person selling their ship. Who is building ships? What the heck is going on? I can't rat to make money I work and don't have the time....Anyone else being screwed over by massive overheads?
Johnny Frecko
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#2 - 2012-06-12 13:57:33 UTC
That's the exact behaviour you expect in a market that has alot of competitors. 0% profits.

You expect at least some *real* profits. that is, if you can buy your minerals cheaper, you can produce the ships for less.
Almost every building slob bases his price on jita. both on production costs and selling prices.

I'm producing battleships/battlecruisers and i'm still finding profits.
Buy from jita sell orders will probably get you negative profits though.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#3 - 2012-06-12 14:01:29 UTC
Buy orders and patience, works for me.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Cosmic Tycoon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-12 14:39:10 UTC
It was never this difficult though.

I could buy the minerals but there's so little difference between buy orders and someone's sell orders? I'll run up some calculations but I don't think it will make too much difference.
I remember when I was making 7m per Geddon I built...
SetrakDark
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-12 15:27:16 UTC
Obviously you're just not able to compete in this market. Find a new one.
Johnny Frecko
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#6 - 2012-06-12 15:35:38 UTC
try buying from somewhere else, not jita.
afterall, people ARE making profits, who are them? what can they do differently than you?
the only thng possible is cheaper minerals. research.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#7 - 2012-06-12 16:28:52 UTC
Hey, why not water down your profitable mineral trading operation with some ship building.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2012-06-12 16:55:01 UTC
I just wanted to point out, it is worse for invention. T2 hulls for Command ships or T2 cruisers. Massive loss of isk on many of those builds.
Taji Taka
The Arcadian Sun
#9 - 2012-06-12 20:10:14 UTC
You have to source your materials from regions that have the best prices, and do some legwork moving those materials to your production station. You also might want to draw up a contract with a mining corp that can sell you minerals at negotiated low bulk rates.

As stated before, no, you cannot just buy from Jita and expect to make profit...at the very most, it can be utilized in emergencies, but the bulk of your materials should come from elsewhere.

-T
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#10 - 2012-06-13 07:12:24 UTC
If you buy your minerals cheaply then part of your overall profit will come from mineral trading, not ship building.

If you move your minerals from outlying locations to hub locations then part of your overall profit will come from hauling, not ship building.

If the ship building stage of your business does not add any profit (or worse results in a reduction of profit) then it doesn't matter what other activities you are engaged in that make your overall business profitable. None of that makes your ship building profitable.

It may be that the ship building is an entirely counterproductive step that could be removed from your business for increased profit. Alternatively it could be that the ship building is allowing you to sell your minerals more easily, but ease of activity and profitability of activity are not the same thing.
Johnny Frecko
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#11 - 2012-06-13 09:40:08 UTC
While true, Notice that using jita sell orders nets in a loss, meaning that you could theoreticly sell in jita.
however, if you buy your minerals somewhere else, produce somewhere else and sell somewhere else, it doesn't really matter now does it?

People believe there's only one price for trit, only one value for ISK.
in reality, the real value of ISK changes depending where you live in space.
Ship building can be unprofitable with jita prices and highly profitable(when removing hauling and mineral trading) in other regions.
also to assume you can always sell your minerals in jita for zero effort at any given time is unrealistic to some manufacturers as they have millions of m3s of mats and they aren't selling in jita at all.
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-06-13 11:12:39 UTC
If you mine the minerals you can make for example 80 million isk per Dominix hull.
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#13 - 2012-06-13 11:17:37 UTC
I did not mention Jita at all and I made no assumptions about the price or location.

If you are working the market margins on minerals then some of your profit comes from mineral trading. It doesn't matter if you are doing it in Jita or Outer Mongolia.

If you are working between multiple locations then part of your profit comes from hauling.
Frederick Sanger
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-06-16 19:55:59 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
If you mine the minerals you can make for example 80 million isk per Dominix hull.

Tell me more about opportunity cost.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#15 - 2012-06-16 20:13:05 UTC
In EvE, you either:

- have a brain and good plans to build the stuff that nets a profit

or

- stick to trading minerals.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-06-16 21:31:24 UTC
Start a spreadsheet on t3. Material supply is increasing from people going back to their holes, and prices of finished products aren't dropping fast enough to keep pace.
Danari
Syncore
#17 - 2012-06-18 04:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Danari
I can't speak for Jita, but I can speak for Amarr, and it's fairly trivial to retain a reserve stock and jump on ship supply shortages. I just dumped 38 Hurricanes at 13.5% because the one thing that's more certain than death and taxes is that the nickel/dimers can't spin minerals fast enough to keep up with demand.

Edit: Just flipped 13 ravens at 7.5%. The two idiots with 1 each at < 3% just got pwnd.
Danari
Syncore
#18 - 2012-06-18 08:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Blueprint Seller wrote:
If you buy your minerals cheaply then part of your overall profit will come from mineral trading, not ship building.

If you move your minerals from outlying locations to hub locations then part of your overall profit will come from hauling, not ship building.

If the ship building stage of your business does not add any profit (or worse results in a reduction of profit) then it doesn't matter what other activities you are engaged in that make your overall business profitable. None of that makes your ship building profitable.



While these are all truisms, the practical fact is that hauling costs (<3 RFF) are less than .4% of my costs, and the margin between my purchase costs and potential sell costs are essentially nil, yet my long term GP% remains on average 8% across my BPO portfolio. The reality is I commit every day 7% of my materials to a production cycle of 23 hours, and apply a 1.08 multiplier to its output.

*edit* You really didn't need to phrase the end of your statement the way you did. Cleaned it up for you a little.

-ISD Dorrim Barstorlode