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Why DUST 514 is going to be a failure
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Orlacc
#101 - 2012-06-11 15:27:37 UTC
Stay tuned! Next week NickyYo and his pals take on the deflation of the Euro!


P.S. PS3 is doing fine.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#102 - 2012-06-11 15:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
AlleyKat wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I only play PC titles. So if it is going to fail no big deal. I will never play it.


... a great deal of misinformation and speculation...


CCP financials are available and have been examined extensively by the EVE community.

Subscription numbers, when released, include only ACTIVE accounts.

If CCP weren't willing to take a risk, like every other major player in the gaming industry, EVE would never have been created in the first place.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#103 - 2012-06-11 18:26:15 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
Not because of the game content but becuase of CCP's planning.

So CCP is going to release this DUST 514 on the exteremely outdated Playstation 3 right?
My view is this, why are they not preparing it for PlayStation 4 where they are guranteed large purchases?

CCP, you do know the Playstation 4 comes out in 6 months right?


You do realize that they have yet to really scratch the surface of the PS3 (and I wager, the 360), yeah? And that both Microsoft and Sony both believe that they still have a couple more good years at least before an 8th generation system is due? I understand why you think that, in the past, consoles have worked off of the five year rule. But the aforementioned console developers are gonna drag this one out a little bit further.

Oh, and there is no real info on the PS4, let alone a release date. Education, it's a beautiful thing.

John Hancock
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#104 - 2012-06-11 23:29:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP financials are available and have been examined extensively by the EVE community.

Subscription numbers, when released, include only ACTIVE accounts.

If CCP weren't willing to take a risk, like every other major player in the gaming industry, EVE would never have been created in the first place.


Exactly, not player numbers, but accounts - difference is: if you got an average of 1.5 accounts per player, every time you lose 100 players, you actually lose 150 accounts/characters. Think about it. Then expand your thought process to the other points in my post. Got it yet? Or did you skim read for mirth.

As for 'every other major player'...well, CCP are simply not a major player, although their attempt to be this is commendable, and their PR interview question-answering at the booths at shows is very 'PR-by-numbers' comments that say everything and nothing.

This is kinda what I was hinting at with the 'keeping up appearances' comment(s), as I'm sure they are playing it cool and socialising with the real major players and buying drinks for all.

If I had access to the psychological profiles of the top guys & gals at CCP, I may have some basis for suggesting that the need to release on PS3 is because the name behind it is 'Sony' and that just gives other people a different impression of a company, than one which runs a small, niche MMO from Iceland.

The Ego is a fickle thing, and it's interesting to read peoples responses to difficult questions, and then to watch them slip into autopilot PR responses.

What someone does defines who they are, not what they say, remember?

AK

This space for rent.
Herr Hammer Draken
#105 - 2012-06-12 08:45:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Ranger 1 wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I only play PC titles. So if it is going to fail no big deal. I will never play it.


... a great deal of misinformation and speculation...


CCP financials are available and have been examined extensively by the EVE community.

Subscription numbers, when released, include only ACTIVE accounts.

If CCP weren't willing to take a risk, like every other major player in the gaming industry, EVE would never have been created in the first place.


You do not get it. Dust is not going to be released for the PC. So whatever happens to Dust is not my concern except for if it impacts EVE negatively. I will never play Dust. Further even a flop title on a console rig will probably do far better than EVE does as a PC title for CCP. And that is what really irritates me. CCP already seems to understand this as well. That is why they are releasing it as a console title instead of as a PC title. That to me says CCP is marketing to the preteen crowd IE flashy graphics and no game play.

CCP evolving like that is a bad thing IMHO. Just like playing EVE...if you can make a ton of money without much work just using some flashy graphics then why bother with difficult intense PC game play titles? Titles where the return on investment is a lot less. Like PC titles, like EVE.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Venri Zod
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2012-06-12 09:11:14 UTC
Don't they realize FPS sucks on console???
Kievan Arakyd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2012-06-12 09:25:35 UTC
Damn, unreal engine 3 games can never be moved form one platform to another....

Got my Dust514 key...
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#108 - 2012-06-12 09:33:21 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP financials are available and have been examined extensively by the EVE community.

Subscription numbers, when released, include only ACTIVE accounts.

If CCP weren't willing to take a risk, like every other major player in the gaming industry, EVE would never have been created in the first place.


+1 to that.

Some people simply do not get that and do not follow through on the logic of it. Haters going to keep on hating, I guess.
I have had the privilege of playing some Dust514 and all I can say is it's a brilliant addition to Eve. The potential interaction with all of Eve is tremendous.

Bring it on, CCP !!

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#109 - 2012-06-12 09:35:02 UTC
Kievan Arakyd wrote:
Damn, unreal engine 3 games can never be moved form one platform to another....


hehe, good use of positive sarcasm o7

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Herr Hammer Draken
#110 - 2012-06-12 10:12:04 UTC
Venri Zod wrote:
Don't they realize FPS sucks on console???


Yep like skyrim. If you want to play that game with all of the add on content then you must use the PC version.
The console version is stuck with very limited almost no additional content.
Many things in that game are difficult to do on the console version and the PC version makes the game what it should be.
Graphics can be driven to a much higher level on the PC version than what the console can do.
But note the interface sucked for the PC because the game was designed for the console first.
It was only later that a new pc interface was developed. Even with all of that being as it is the console version outsold the PC version 6 to 1.

In the end the pc experience is much greater than the console experience is with skyrim.
And you can not run the nude mod on a console version.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#111 - 2012-06-12 10:14:30 UTC
Venri Zod wrote:
Don't they realize FPS sucks on console???


Don't you realise a whole hell of a lot of people think you are wrong?

MW3 sales by platform

VGCHARTZ wrote:
A reported 1.5 million people queued at midnight globally to get their hands on Modern Warfare 3, with a total of 9.3 million copies sold on the first day. The Xbox 360 version sees around a 54% share, meaning it's the first game on one platform to pass 5 million on its first day. The PlayStation 3 version held 42%, which is around the 4 million mark. Both day ones are only slightly behind Black Ops entire first week sales. The PC version and the Wii version held the remaining 4%, which is around 370,000 units.


14.7 million people purchased it for the XBOX 360, 11.89 million for the PS3 and 1.38 million for the PC. Seems the rest of the world disagrees with you and believes that consoles are much better for FPS games, which is just one of the reasons why DUST514 is a console game, not a PC game.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#112 - 2012-06-12 13:03:24 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Venri Zod wrote:
Don't they realize FPS sucks on console???


Don't you realise a whole hell of a lot of people think you are wrong?

MW3 sales by platform

VGCHARTZ wrote:
A reported 1.5 million people queued at midnight globally to get their hands on Modern Warfare 3, with a total of 9.3 million copies sold on the first day. The Xbox 360 version sees around a 54% share, meaning it's the first game on one platform to pass 5 million on its first day. The PlayStation 3 version held 42%, which is around the 4 million mark. Both day ones are only slightly behind Black Ops entire first week sales. The PC version and the Wii version held the remaining 4%, which is around 370,000 units.


14.7 million people purchased it for the XBOX 360, 11.89 million for the PS3 and 1.38 million for the PC. Seems the rest of the world disagrees with you and believes that consoles are much better for FPS games, which is just one of the reasons why DUST514 is a console game, not a PC game.


MW3 had $100 million in marketing budget, and spent $1.5 million hiring Sam Worthington (lead in Avatar - go figure the target audience) to act in a live-action sequence promo.

CCP are spending how much? Oh, that's right - ZERO, because they are not a global player and have access to 1/10th of a billion $ to promote their new game which they believe really strongly about.

So confident are they, they are releasing the game F2P.

Supporting your comment slightly; People who FPS on consoles play CoD or anything else which has $100 mill marketing budgets and People who FPS on PC's don't.

/doublefacepalm

This space for rent.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#113 - 2012-06-12 15:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
AlleyKat wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP financials are available and have been examined extensively by the EVE community.

Subscription numbers, when released, include only ACTIVE accounts.

If CCP weren't willing to take a risk, like every other major player in the gaming industry, EVE would never have been created in the first place.


Exactly, not player numbers, but accounts - difference is: if you got an average of 1.5 accounts per player, every time you lose 100 players, you actually lose 150 accounts/characters. Think about it. Then expand your thought process to the other points in my post. Got it yet? Or did you skim read for mirth.

As for 'every other major player'...well, CCP are simply not a major player, although their attempt to be this is commendable, and their PR interview question-answering at the booths at shows is very 'PR-by-numbers' comments that say everything and nothing.

This is kinda what I was hinting at with the 'keeping up appearances' comment(s), as I'm sure they are playing it cool and socialising with the real major players and buying drinks for all.

If I had access to the psychological profiles of the top guys & gals at CCP, I may have some basis for suggesting that the need to release on PS3 is because the name behind it is 'Sony' and that just gives other people a different impression of a company, than one which runs a small, niche MMO from Iceland.

The Ego is a fickle thing, and it's interesting to read peoples responses to difficult questions, and then to watch them slip into autopilot PR responses.

What someone does defines who they are, not what they say, remember?

AK


Perhaps you should reread what you posted and put some thought into it yourself. Smile

While you have demonstrated your grasp of basic math, when you consider that active subscriptions have steadily increased every year (remember, your original point was that they were trying to count inactive subscriptions as well) all you have proven is that not only is CCP's income is increasing, but also (unless there are statistics we haven't seen stating otherwise) since the ratio of players to number of accounts has remained the same the number of active players is therefore expanding also.

Also consider that all this is happening despite system requirements becoming a bit more demanding (limiting multi box users to a degree), and that currently thousands of accounts are banned every month for botting (again, heavy multi boxers).

You have successfully proven that CCP is heading in the right direction from a business point of view and are expanding their customer base, congratulations. Smile

Edit: I almost forgot, while you may not consider CCP to be a major player that is simply your opinion. The rest of the gaming industry seems to disagree with you. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#114 - 2012-06-12 15:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I only play PC titles. So if it is going to fail no big deal. I will never play it.


... a great deal of misinformation and speculation...


CCP financials are available and have been examined extensively by the EVE community.

Subscription numbers, when released, include only ACTIVE accounts.

If CCP weren't willing to take a risk, like every other major player in the gaming industry, EVE would never have been created in the first place.


You do not get it. Dust is not going to be released for the PC. So whatever happens to Dust is not my concern except for if it impacts EVE negatively. I will never play Dust. Further even a flop title on a console rig will probably do far better than EVE does as a PC title for CCP. And that is what really irritates me. CCP already seems to understand this as well. That is why they are releasing it as a console title instead of as a PC title. That to me says CCP is marketing to the preteen crowd IE flashy graphics and no game play.

CCP evolving like that is a bad thing IMHO. Just like playing EVE...if you can make a ton of money without much work just using some flashy graphics then why bother with difficult intense PC game play titles? Titles where the return on investment is a lot less. Like PC titles, like EVE.


Game companies can and do create games for different audiences and playstyles.

DUST is shaping up to have deeper game play by far than any other FPS console game (and most FPS PC games) on the market.

If you have the opportunity, you might want to check out the Beta before you comment too much further. It's beginning to look pretty amazing.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-06-12 15:46:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


You do not get it. Dust is not going to be released for the PC. So whatever happens to Dust is not my concern except for if it impacts EVE negatively. I will never play Dust. Further even a flop title on a console rig will probably do far better than EVE does as a PC title for CCP. And that is what really irritates me. CCP already seems to understand this as well. That is why they are releasing it as a console title instead of as a PC title. That to me says CCP is marketing to the preteen crowd IE flashy graphics and no game play.

CCP evolving like that is a bad thing IMHO. Just like playing EVE...if you can make a ton of money without much work just using some flashy graphics then why bother with difficult intense PC game play titles? Titles where the return on investment is a lot less. Like PC titles, like EVE.


So you're basically saying that since console games sells better than EVE (let me disagree. DUST will be F2P while EVE charges a monthly fee, so we will have to see how does all this goes), then CCP must be aiming for console player base, who obviously are teenagers all of them (regardless many of my friends have a PS3), who obviously will only be interested in graphics (even if the already announced interaction with EVE will be inmense).
And all of this shows that CCP is a bad bad company because they want to make money and they will, somehow, manage to ruin EVE (don't you guys get tired of so much doomsaying?) because they will grow effortless, even after having mantained EVE in a extremely good level for longer than any other MMO out there (save for Runescape I guess).

Too much of assuption, don't you think?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#116 - 2012-06-12 16:01:41 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
Not because of the game content but becuase of CCP's planning.

So CCP is going to release this DUST 514 on the exteremely outdated Playstation 3 right?
My view is this, why are they not preparing it for PlayStation 4 where they are guranteed large purchases?

CCP, you do know the Playstation 4 comes out in 6 months right?


Take PS3 source code... print to PS4 disc with proper encoding... problem solved.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Flakey Foont
#117 - 2012-06-12 16:24:37 UTC
I love how a bunch of fry cooks and Best Buy clerks know the right way to run a business.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#118 - 2012-06-12 16:41:04 UTC
How is it going to compete when Sony is releasing not only Planetside2 but also StarHawks.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#119 - 2012-06-13 00:47:42 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Venri Zod wrote:
Don't they realize FPS sucks on console???


Don't you realise a whole hell of a lot of people think you are wrong?

MW3 sales by platform

VGCHARTZ wrote:
A reported 1.5 million people queued at midnight globally to get their hands on Modern Warfare 3, with a total of 9.3 million copies sold on the first day. The Xbox 360 version sees around a 54% share, meaning it's the first game on one platform to pass 5 million on its first day. The PlayStation 3 version held 42%, which is around the 4 million mark. Both day ones are only slightly behind Black Ops entire first week sales. The PC version and the Wii version held the remaining 4%, which is around 370,000 units.


14.7 million people purchased it for the XBOX 360, 11.89 million for the PS3 and 1.38 million for the PC. Seems the rest of the world disagrees with you and believes that consoles are much better for FPS games, which is just one of the reasons why DUST514 is a console game, not a PC game.


MW3 had $100 million in marketing budget, and spent $1.5 million hiring Sam Worthington (lead in Avatar - go figure the target audience) to act in a live-action sequence promo.

CCP are spending how much? Oh, that's right - ZERO, because they are not a global player and have access to 1/10th of a billion $ to promote their new game which they believe really strongly about.

So confident are they, they are releasing the game F2P.

Supporting your comment slightly; People who FPS on consoles play CoD or anything else which has $100 mill marketing budgets and People who FPS on PC's don't.

/doublefacepalm



You seem to have missed something here. While CCP lack the worldwide stature to successfully advertise DUST514, there is someone involved in the project who does. Have you perhaps heard of a little Japanese company called Sony?

Well it seems that they are advertising DUST514, spending a lot of time and money doing so, and have been supporting the project from step one. Isn't that nice of them? Not only that but all three major console makers are watching DUST514 with great anticipation, do you know why? Because of the F2P market and it's ability to generate massive amounts of long term income.

Take League of Legends for an example, their daily income jumped up by 700% after it went F2P, and LOTRO also saw vast increases in income when it did the same. DUST514 is the worlds first AAA MMOFPS that has been designed from the ground up to be both F2P and for consoles.

So, in summary, DUST514 will be well advertised both within the existing FPS gaming community as well as to the wider market.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Herr Hammer Draken
#120 - 2012-06-13 07:19:08 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


You do not get it. Dust is not going to be released for the PC. So whatever happens to Dust is not my concern except for if it impacts EVE negatively. I will never play Dust. Further even a flop title on a console rig will probably do far better than EVE does as a PC title for CCP. And that is what really irritates me. CCP already seems to understand this as well. That is why they are releasing it as a console title instead of as a PC title. That to me says CCP is marketing to the preteen crowd IE flashy graphics and no game play.

CCP evolving like that is a bad thing IMHO. Just like playing EVE...if you can make a ton of money without much work just using some flashy graphics then why bother with difficult intense PC game play titles? Titles where the return on investment is a lot less. Like PC titles, like EVE.


So you're basically saying that since console games sells better than EVE (let me disagree. DUST will be F2P while EVE charges a monthly fee, so we will have to see how does all this goes), then CCP must be aiming for console player base, who obviously are teenagers all of them (regardless many of my friends have a PS3), who obviously will only be interested in graphics (even if the already announced interaction with EVE will be inmense).
And all of this shows that CCP is a bad bad company because they want to make money and they will, somehow, manage to ruin EVE (don't you guys get tired of so much doomsaying?) because they will grow effortless, even after having mantained EVE in a extremely good level for longer than any other MMO out there (save for Runescape I guess).

Too much of assuption, don't you think?


Yep I am setting the bar pretty low. CCP can surprise me with a lot of upside and I hope they do. But I am not holding my breath. Still I am not ever going to buy a console. Ergo Dust has no value to me unless it has a positive impact on EVE.
But if it has a negative impact on EVE then I will be upset. And I suspect this result has the greater chance than any upside result. Just call it past experience.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"