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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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Armor adaptive hardener not readapting

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Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#1 - 2012-06-12 12:11:44 UTC
This might belong to different category so please move if needed.

Armor adaptive hardener has few issues. Its adaptation speed is not constant, but depends on its state. Also the module under certain condition stops adapting.


The cause: These symptoms are caused by formula used for adaptation. AFAIK every cycle it does the following steps

  1. check for incoming damage.
  2. subtract 1 point from every not incoming non zero resistance
  3. add obtained number of points to the incoming damage types resistances


When adapting from default state to one damage type the adaptation speed is 3% a cycle. When adapting from single damage type to another damage type the speed is 1% a cycle.

Also when fully adapted to one damage type it will never readapt as long as at least tiny bit of incoming damage is that particular type.

Possible solution: Change the formula a bit. Every cycle it should do the following:

  1. subtract 1 point from every non zero resistance.
  2. check for incoming damage.
  3. add obtained points to the incoming damage types resistances


This will solve the readaptation issue, but will not help with adaptation speed. To solve it I propose the following change: at first step continue subtracting until you have fixed amount of points available (example: Explosive resist is at 0%, other are non zero. Subtract 1% from kinetic, 1% from thermal and 1% from Em resistance. Now you need to subtract 1% more. So pick one randomly and subtract 1% from it.) Other steps are the same. It will not make the adaptation speed completely constant, but it will oscillate between much closer points.
CCP Paradox
#2 - 2012-06-12 16:24:02 UTC
So, the readaptation issue for;
"Also when fully adapted to one damage type it will never readapt as long as at least tiny bit of incoming damage is that particular type. "

If you suddenly start receiving different damage type, you can turn off the module, and back on again. It will reset all resistances to 15% to begin to adapt to a new resistance. This is how we proceeded with the module.

The adaptation speed can be changed through the armour resistance phasing skill.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#3 - 2012-06-12 16:27:30 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
So, the readaptation issue for;
"Also when fully adapted to one damage type it will never readapt as long as at least tiny bit of incoming damage is that particular type. "

If you suddenly start receiving different damage type, you can turn off the module, and back on again. It will reset all resistances to 15% to begin to adapt to a new resistance. This is how we proceeded with the module.

The adaptation speed can be changed through the armour resistance phasing skill.

That would be good info to include in the info window of the moduleCool

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Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#4 - 2012-06-12 16:34:11 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
So, the readaptation issue for;
"Also when fully adapted to one damage type it will never readapt as long as at least tiny bit of incoming damage is that particular type. "

If you suddenly start receiving different damage type, you can turn off the module, and back on again. It will reset all resistances to 15% to begin to adapt to a new resistance. This is how we proceeded with the module.

The adaptation speed can be changed through the armour resistance phasing skill.


Apology, I just realized the singularity feedback thread about this is still alive.

As per CCP Tuxford post here I thought it to be a bug not a feature.


I think you misunderstood the adaptation speed issue I had. It was not about the cycle time, but about how many points are shifted per cycle. Maybe that is also a feature.

Thanks for the reply though. Much appreciated.
CCP Paradox
#5 - 2012-06-12 16:37:47 UTC
The Tuxford post, yes it was something we discussed. But changing the hardener is too risky when you can simply reset it by turning on/off again.

The speed issue, yes I misunderstood. Certainly having more % per cycle might be interesting. But I am not sure it can be easily done. I will put it forward to SoniClover and Tuxford to think about.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#6 - 2012-06-12 19:45:59 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
The Tuxford post, yes it was something we discussed. But changing the hardener is too risky when you can simply reset it by turning on/off again.


Fair enough.

CCP Paradox wrote:
The speed issue, yes I misunderstood. Certainly having more % per cycle might be interesting. But I am not sure it can be easily done. I will put it forward to SoniClover and Tuxford to think about.


I think there is still some misunderstanding. Let me demonstrate the issue with example: Drake is firing at you with kinetic missiles. you activate your edaptive hardener. first cycle it removes 1 resistance point from Em, explosive and thermic. It adds 3 resistance points to kinetic. Hence the adaptation speed is 3 resistance points to kinetic per cycle.

If the hardener is fully adapted to single damage type say kinetic. Let the incoming damage be thermal. Then the adaptation speed will be only 1resistance point to thermal per cycle.

But this discussion probably belongs to features and ideas. Again thanks for the reply.
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-06-12 19:57:31 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
The Tuxford post, yes it was something we discussed. But changing the hardener is too risky when you can simply reset it by turning on/off again.


Fair enough.

CCP Paradox wrote:
The speed issue, yes I misunderstood. Certainly having more % per cycle might be interesting. But I am not sure it can be easily done. I will put it forward to SoniClover and Tuxford to think about.


I think there is still some misunderstanding. Let me demonstrate the issue with example: Drake is firing at you with kinetic missiles. you activate your edaptive hardener. first cycle it removes 1 resistance point from Em, explosive and thermic. It adds 3 resistance points to kinetic. Hence the adaptation speed is 3 resistance points to kinetic per cycle.

If the hardener is fully adapted to single damage type say kinetic. Let the incoming damage be thermal. Then the adaptation speed will be only 1resistance point to thermal per cycle.

But this discussion probably belongs to features and ideas. Again thanks for the reply.



I have a feeling the solution to make the system as you are proposing would involve the module instead deducting one point from each resistance type in series, then loops until it has deducted a total of 4 points. It then adds those points as normal depending on incoming damage.

But that of course depends on whether or not CCP wishes to change the design as such.

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Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#8 - 2012-06-12 20:57:56 UTC
Grideris wrote:


I have a feeling the solution to make the system as you are proposing would involve the module instead deducting one point from each resistance type in series, then loops until it has deducted a total of 4 points. It then adds those points as normal depending on incoming damage.

But that of course depends on whether or not CCP wishes to change the design as such.


Exactly.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-06-12 21:24:10 UTC
Grideris wrote:
I have a feeling the solution to make the system as you are proposing would involve the module instead deducting one point from each resistance type in series, then loops until it has deducted a total of 4 points. It then adds those points as normal depending on incoming damage.

But that of course depends on whether or not CCP wishes to change the design as such.

I really like this idea and I think having the module operate this way would make a lot more sense.

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