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New dev blog: A letter to the followers of EVE

First post First post
Author
Nathanial Victor
Pelennor Guard
#501 - 2011-10-06 08:56:09 UTC
Thank you.
We appreciate the communications.

My account reactivation will be performed after implementation of the much needed and delayed changes.

You've made the first step towards regaining my trust. I am hoping you continue to make the journey required.
Junky Juke
Atom Heart Mothership
#502 - 2011-10-06 08:58:56 UTC
Humility... a good starting point! Blink
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#503 - 2011-10-06 09:05:34 UTC
I've now published my official reaction to Hilmar's letter in my blog:

Hilmar's 'Apology'

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Ghost Resonance
Doomheim
#504 - 2011-10-06 09:08:09 UTC
:words:

Still watching. Nice job on cyno and ship spinning. We are now back to 2007 in terms of gameplay. What you have in store for winter is of much greater importance. Then we'll see what all this sincerity buys...
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#505 - 2011-10-06 09:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Cors wrote:
WHERE do PEOPLE who already pay for your game TELL YOU they WANT THIS????

Monthly subscription fees BUILT CCP. BUILT EVE ONLINE.

MY GOD. The greed that is slapping us in the face, beating us with sticks, stealing our wallets is called Micro transactions.

**** OFF with MICRO-TRANSACTIONS.

Just because half the Japanese/Chinese/Korean games do this does NOT mean it's a good model. This is the model for games that are on their dead beds. Games that have no development team left. Games that are DIEING!

Many people reduced their time spent in EVE in favor of games like WoT (power & convenience MTs) or LoL (vanity & convenience MTs).

Maybe you'll argue that these games are fundamentally different from EVE but I think especially the wide-spread love for WoT among EVE players (and "gold ammo" in WoT gives you a very significant advantage) is a huge pointer to CCP that the issue is with "subscription AND power MTs" and not power MTs per se.

So, yes, I think there is a pretty strong argument that players themselves tell CCP with their actions that MTs are at least acceptable (if not preferable to a subscription-based model).


I switched to playing mostly WoW this summer and the amount of people you see flying Winged Guardians (a 25$ mount that has no advantage over other mounts other than looks) is simply staggering. It feels like some group member shows off his "Lil' Ragnaros" 10$ pet (no gameplay function at all) in roughly every fourth or fifth dungeon run (which would make 1 in every 20-25 players).
People are obviously happy to pay extra - on top of a monthly subscription and paid-for expansions - just to show off a little and demonstrate their commitment to the game.
(And half of my guild's raiding team have played/have been playing EVE for at least 2 years - so the argument that the EVE and WoW demographics are completely separate does not match my personal experience.)


Before I started playing EVE (my first paid-for MMO) I used to think that spending 13-15€/month just on one game is simply ridiculous. 180€/year - what kind of addicted insanity makes you pay that much when there is so much other entertainment (both virtual and irl) that is basically free. Today it feels pretty normal.

Similarly I used to hate MTs on principle - until I picked up LoL and spent around 100€ on the game last year. I still don't like the business model but I have to admit that it works. It makes me spend a lot more money on gaming than I would have spent otherwise (I would never have paid more than 30€ for a game like LoL if it were a one-time purchase) and yet I still feel good about spending so much.
Ameno Furi
A LEAP IN THE DARK...
#506 - 2011-10-06 09:09:37 UTC
1. i realy enjoyed to read the posts! Thank you for them and hopefully being honest!

2. all on the list looks nice and im looking forward to see what will be released soon

3. by saying Spaceships......i realy hope of getting to see something new and not another old recolored ship with 2 extra boni...


looking forward to all the hopefully good and balanced changes Smile
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#507 - 2011-10-06 09:14:30 UTC
Seleene wrote:
I've now published my official reaction to Hilmar's letter in my blog:

Hilmar's 'Apology'


I don't particulary agree until it's backed up by actions, and your comparison with Charlie Brown and Lucy is pretty accurate so that might be why I'm hesitant.. either case; it's alot better than not having this blog, so it's a step forward. Even tho technicly we havn't had anything happen yet.

I'm curious too to see if you see through the populist choices of 'fixes' for the winter expansion, and note that nothing major is really noted to get this game back on track?

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#508 - 2011-10-06 09:21:19 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
Cors wrote:
WHERE do PEOPLE who already pay for your game TELL YOU they WANT THIS????

Monthly subscription fees BUILT CCP. BUILT EVE ONLINE.

MY GOD. The greed that is slapping us in the face, beating us with sticks, stealing our wallets is called Micro transactions.

**** OFF with MICRO-TRANSACTIONS.

Just because half the Japanese/Chinese/Korean games do this does NOT mean it's a good model. This is the model for games that are on their dead beds. Games that have no development team left. Games that are DIEING!

Many people reduced their time spent in EVE in favor of games like WoT (power & convenience MTs) or LoL (vanity & convenience MTs).

Maybe you'll argue that these games are fundamentally different from EVE but I think especially the wide-spread love for WoT among EVE players (and "gold ammo" in WoT gives you a very significant advantage) is a huge pointer to CCP that the issue is with "subscription AND power MTs" and not power MTs per se.

So, yes, I think there is a pretty strong argument that players themselves tell CCP with their actions that MTs are at least acceptable (if not preferable to a subscription-based model).


Yah, we can take me for example. At my peak I had 50+ characters and quite a bunch of accounts active in this game. I'm one of those older customers who been through most expansions and changes in this game. But since this spring I only log to change skills and read mails, more or less.

I've gone to use my gaming time in WoT, LoL, both free to play. I'm also re-playing old games like Warcraft 2, the Heroes of Might and Magic series (including the beta 6). Civilization, NWN, etc. I.e. I'm playing games that either are free to play, or games I bought or downloaded years ago.

I already cancelled my SW:TOR pre-order, I've dropped my EVE accounts to what is already pre-paid, and I don't really feel a reason to play anything that cost me money. That's the reality of the MMO industry as a whole, look at Blizzard, dropping 2 million subscribers in short time wasn't it? 12->10? Meanwhile free to play games are doing well.

There are still people around who don't mind paying a monthly subscription, that is right, but it's a given fact that the MMO industry can see where things are heading. Free to play is the reality (right now) and something you want to introduce sooner rather than later. When Zulu posted his blog about "big changes", I actually believed CCP had taken the decision to go free to play and rely on PLEX/NeX for the future. It's quite obvious they're looking at that direction right now.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Ivan Svyatoslav
RedSun Corporation
#509 - 2011-10-06 09:23:08 UTC
I kinda feel there should be a gathering of folks around the Jita monument remote-repping it, as a symbolic undoing of past damages. Smile

Thank you for the message, I look forward to this winter.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#510 - 2011-10-06 09:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
I'm not sure what to make of this emo crap...

In fact... I'm a bit taken aback...

Just come out with some good EvE Sh%t zulu.

I don't give a rats ass about your self discovery.

I want to take over the fuc^*@*g galaxy.

Produce el game yo...

...and all will be forgiven.

...I just want a reason to get in my spaceship...

EDIT:

CSM - kiss my a55. you guys suck.

Zulu - Listen to this: this
Now Play "Freelancer". Go get some Nomad Guns.
No lets bring a revolution.
Where's my secret Nomad gate to the unknown?

Your a producer. Produce. :D

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Lorna Sicling
Eire Engineers
Pandemic Horde
#511 - 2011-10-06 09:33:06 UTC
Well done - well said. It takes a lot to be that open and honest and humble before such a harsh community.

The passion and commitment to doing things right has been put in writing in no uncertain terms, and I'm excited about the next steps.

Eve has a future, and the two devblogs have shown that the future can be a good one.

Now let's see some of the devblogs about the changes!

Industrialist - currently renting in null sec.

Writer of the blog "A Scientist's Life in Eve" - proud member of the Eve Blog Pack

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#512 - 2011-10-06 09:38:05 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I'm not sure what to make of this emo crap...

In fact... I'm a bit taken aback...

Just come out with some good EvE Sh%t zulu.

I don't give a rats ass about your self discovery.

I want to take over the fuc^*@*g galaxy.

Produce el game yo...

...and all will be forgiven.

...I just want a reason to get in my spaceship...

EDIT:

CSM - kiss my a55. you guys suck.

Zulu - Listen to this: this
Now Play "Freelancer". Go get some Nomad Guns.
No lets bring a revolution.
Where's my secret Nomad gate to the unknown?

Your a producer. Produce. :D

I'm quoting myself to see if something actually posts because the forums are broken.

serves me right for drinking and eve.

Note to newbs: Drinking and EvE is a fools game.

Don't do it.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#513 - 2011-10-06 09:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Gogela wrote:
I'm not sure what to make of this emo crap...

In fact... I'm a bit taken aback...

Just come out with some good EvE Sh@t zulu.

I don't give a rats ass about your self discovery.

I want to take over the fuc^*@*g galaxy.

Produce el game yo...

...and all will be forgiven.

...I just want a reason to get in my spaceship...

EDIT:

CSM - kiss my a55. you guys suck.

Zulu - Listen to this: this
Now Play "Freelancer". Go get some Nomad Guns.
No lets bring a revolution.
Where's my secret Nomad gate to the unknown?

Your a producer. Produce. :D

the bbcode parser doesn't like the percentage sign, avoid using it if you want other people to see your post.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#514 - 2011-10-06 09:41:45 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Seleene wrote:
I've now published my official reaction to Hilmar's letter in my blog:

Hilmar's 'Apology'


I don't particulary agree until it's backed up by actions, and your comparison with Charlie Brown and Lucy is pretty accurate so that might be why I'm hesitant.. either case; it's alot better than not having this blog, so it's a step forward. Even tho technicly we havn't had anything happen yet.

I'm curious too to see if you see through the populist choices of 'fixes' for the winter expansion, and note that nothing major is really noted to get this game back on track?


Bear a few things in mind:

1.) If it's not been made clear by the numerous blogs and dev postings, CCP basically had to scrap their August release planning because, "What is this **** I don't even we are ******..."

2.) As a result, they spent the last 3-4 weeks not only changing course but re-shuffling resources and prioritizing what they could do with the time and resources left before December.

3.) While all this was going on, CCP also had to unfuck their public relations which meant letting certain people speak up and telling others to shut up. In the end, Hilmar decided to just stomp on it all and attempt to right the ship from the top down. Granted, this should have been done months ago, but at least it's done now and in a way that leaves CCP no room at all for error.

4.) What we will get for Winter will be in preparation for much larger / bigger / shinier stuff come next year. While all of the 'fixes' and updates are going on in the trenches, the Art department and such can go ahead and start working on NEW STUFF that can be coded and mechanically integrated next year.

I am still not sure if certain people in the company 'get it' at all (actually they are probably mad about a lot of this) and won't attempt to de-rail this effort. This is why I'm going to continue to beat the ITERATIONS ITERATIONS drum often and loudly, no matter what ~words~ are released. Still, I think that CCP, with the help of the CSM and continuing to actually LISTEN to their community, has chosen a smart path for the immediate future.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Astenion
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2011-10-06 09:43:22 UTC
Wow, fantastic message. How many other video game CEOs would communicate with their subscribers in such a way? We're closer to peers than subscribers in this game, and that's how it should be.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#516 - 2011-10-06 09:48:25 UTC
It's a start.

Words are easy but, as stated in that other letter - "Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do..." - if deliverables show, good deal and more will be watched for. If not then we'll see how things go.

One item: experienced industry professionals for key leadership positions

With the current state of the MMO industry, and it's "follow the leader" attitude of 'clone wow's model'...

EVE's way of operating is quite different and attempts to put in what works in those games, without bringing across the artificial limits also imposed in them (classes, limits in advanced skill trees, gear chase model) ... That won't work well.

This part is a bit disconcerting.
Xue Slick
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#517 - 2011-10-06 09:52:48 UTC
Well said. Just always remember CCP, people vote with their money.

The one thing I could never get is why does CCP need to be so secret about their work, is it to WOW the gamers come release day? or is it to protect their work and concepts from other companies?

Would be interesting to know.

Xue
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#518 - 2011-10-06 09:54:41 UTC
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#519 - 2011-10-06 10:05:57 UTC
It is a rare display of strong character that someone of stature apologizes for anything, and I really admire that.
For better or worse, you're far from being the only game developer who has wanted to reach for the stars to discover you can't quite get there just yet. Enthousiasm works that way, and without enthousiasm, Eve would not have existed at all.
I hope that enthousiasm wasn't lost in the process of discovering that the methods used wheren't working.
You're still going to get to those stars, just slowly and in control.
Aina O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#520 - 2011-10-06 10:12:56 UTC
Thanks alot for that sincere letter to the community, CCP Hellmar.

I wonder if you should stop using the word fix in conjunction with nullsec. It will always be under development. Small things can be fixed like bookmarks(please do this btw, it's a fundamental part of the game and is terrible to use. Imagine Eve withouth bookmarks...).