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Do assault ships need rebalancing?

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Tusko Hopkins
Puritans
#1 - 2011-10-06 08:57:03 UTC
First of all, I welcome the new dev blog by CCP Zulu. It's great and the promises to actively fix a lot of broken game mechanics and content are superb, I really hope CCP keeps up on its promise to deliver.

There was one bullet point in the planned changes for the winter expansion that raised my eyebrows a little and it was the one about assault ships.

I was wondering: do they really need to be changed? Alright, they are not the most potent ships in EVE but in their own class (frigs) they are doing kind of okay. The key problem with them is most people are flying larger ships assault frigs cannot easily kill... and maybe they are a bit slow. But I still think they are kinda okay, especially when compared to other completely neglected classes like the ew frigs, tier 1 battlecruisers or black ops.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-06 09:01:24 UTC
Tusko Hopkins wrote:
First of all, I welcome the new dev blog by CCP Zulu. It's great and the promises to actively fix a lot of broken game mechanics and content are superb, I really hope CCP keeps up on its promise to deliver.

There was one bullet point in the planned changes for the winter expansion that raised my eyebrows a little and it was the one about assault ships.

I was wondering: do they really need to be changed? Alright, they are not the most potent ships in EVE but in their own class (frigs) they are doing kind of okay. The key problem with them is most people are flying larger ships assault frigs cannot easily kill... and maybe they are a bit slow. But I still think they are kinda okay, especially when compared to other completely neglected classes like the ew frigs, tier 1 battlecruisers or black ops.



4th bonus.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Sarmatiko
#3 - 2011-10-06 09:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2011-10-06 09:09:40 UTC
4 th bonus

Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot.

Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2011-10-06 09:09:42 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.


Ever run into a fleet composed of nothing but Ishkurs? It's loltastically nasty!

How did you Veterans start?
Tusko Hopkins
Puritans
#6 - 2011-10-06 09:20:00 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.

I think giving them a 4th bonus just because other ships have 4 bonuses is a silly argument. It should not be about the number of bonuses, it should be about the quality and usefulness of those.
Their imbalance vs faction frigs is a good point, but I think the error there on the faction frig side and they should be nerfed. At least the dramiel :)
I myself haven't used assault frigs a lot. I sometimes used them for faction spawn hunting in 0.0 and for grinding up standings at low level missions, and have taken the jag time to time for interceptor roles when I got bored of real interceptors. But you are right: I could have taken a drami or daredevil instead. At a higher price, of course.
Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-06 09:20:24 UTC
I dont think assault frigates need a change.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-06 09:21:08 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.


Ever run into a fleet composed of nothing but Ishkurs? It's loltastically nasty!


Yah, did a fleet with near 100 af's with many ishkurs in once and it was pure pwnage.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2011-10-06 09:25:39 UTC
Tusko Hopkins wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.

I think giving them a 4th bonus just because other ships have 4 bonuses is a silly argument. It should not be about the number of bonuses, it should be about the quality and usefulness of those.
Their imbalance vs faction frigs is a good point, but I think the error there on the faction frig side and they should be nerfed. At least the dramiel :)
I myself haven't used assault frigs a lot. I sometimes used them for faction spawn hunting in 0.0 and for grinding up standings at low level missions, and have taken the jag time to time for interceptor roles when I got bored of real interceptors. But you are right: I could have taken a drami or daredevil instead. At a higher price, of course.


So you yourself admit that you have almost no PvP use for AFs, and then ask why they need fixing?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2011-10-06 09:26:09 UTC
Zey Nadar wrote:
I dont think assault frigates need a change.



Which AFs do you fly regularly?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#11 - 2011-10-06 09:32:31 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
OP tell me is there any practical reason to train assault ship now (besides HAC prereq) if you can simply jump into dramiel and shoot people with much more better effect? Without rebalance, even with upcoming Dramiel nerf all existing asaults will still suck.


Ever run into a fleet composed of nothing but Ishkurs? It's loltastically nasty!

So is a fleet of titans, or logis or blackbirds for that matter.

If the fleet is big enough then most ships will turn out to be awesome, so your point is moot.

Af's have been a overlooked class for years and its about time it gets a boost of some sort.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-10-06 09:35:19 UTC
Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-10-06 09:35:57 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:
4 th bonus

Retribution has only one med slot, NO ship should have just one med slot.

Some general balancing for all ships has been the goal of the next expansion according to interviews with CCP.


Second that. The second bonus doesn't need to be all that huge, but right now, one single BC could take out 4 assault frigs (unless their fit EW), while having the same utility in a fleet that an assault frig. AF in general need a boost, and the Retribution really need to be able to fit a disruptor/web besides the afterburner/MWD.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-10-06 09:39:59 UTC
retribution needs another mid slot.... i want a decent assault frigate that uses lasers!

(hell, i'd like a decent FRIGATE that uses lasers, at the moment you have a choice of Slicer or nothing)

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-06 10:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Skippermonkey wrote:
retribution needs another mid slot.... i want a decent assault frigate that uses lasers!

(hell, i'd like a decent FRIGATE that uses lasers, at the moment you have a choice of Slicer or nothing)

laser-fit Punisher is not as bad as you make it out to be... I used to fly it a lot in RvB and imo it is definitely one of the strongest frigates (after Rifter and AC Punisher).

and the Crusader is a decent alternative to the Slicer
Othran
Route One
#16 - 2011-10-06 10:07:23 UTC
Ah the 4th bonus. Promised/trailed but never delivered. Almost mythical status by now Lol

I think all of the AFs need a bonus which makes them unique. Fair few of them are just either falloff or optimal + damage bonuses.

At the end of the exercise we should end up with 8 ships, each one having a unique set of bonuses.

Oh and for gods sakes give the Retri another midslot - very few people fly AFs for PVE.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-06 10:21:46 UTC
The 4th bonus would be nice, but what it really needs is a role. "Fat tanky frigate which is too slow to actually do anything you'd want a frigate to do (Minmatar excepted)" isn't really cutting it.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#18 - 2011-10-06 10:25:15 UTC
they shoudl all have at least 2 mid slots, you know which one im talking about

OMG when can i get a pic here
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#19 - 2011-10-06 10:56:12 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.

Agreed, one of the most obvious adjustments would be giving the Retribution another mid slot so it's a lot more useful.

Well what are we talking about, re-balancing among each other (like a lot of t1 ships could use as well) or rebalancing compared to other ships like the Dramiel or Daredevil and other ships that can more or less fulfil the same role?
Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
#20 - 2011-10-06 11:01:55 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.


This.

But, in answer to the original question: Yes, they all do.
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