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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Your First Hour And Experience In EVE: Feedback from new Players

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CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2012-06-12 11:18:44 UTC
Please keep your bickering out of this thread. This is pretty much the last warning.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#42 - 2012-06-12 11:49:31 UTC
Morzak Chastot wrote:
I just started playing Eve. I started trial once before but my PC did break down before i got a chance to rally play. Decided to try again.

It's a bit overwhelming, but after you explore the menus a bit and listend to the turorial lady the menu and navigation becomes clearer. My Problem is that I got a Repair Module that requires a Skillbook I don't posses, now during the Mission the Tuorial wants me to use the Repair Module, which isn't installed.

That really needs to be corrected, I have no real Ideas how to proceed, My Ship is damaged and if I just move on I probably die in the next fight :/ .



If you ever are missing something that the tutorial should have given you (Like it says it will give it to you or it goes "here take this skillbook/item") you can file a petition under Gameplay > Missions In Progress and talk to a GM and they can help you out so you can finish your tutorial. Please don't file a petition for things the tutorials wouldn't give you.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-06-12 11:52:53 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
Morzak Chastot wrote:
I just started playing Eve. I started trial once before but my PC did break down before i got a chance to rally play. Decided to try again.

It's a bit overwhelming, but after you explore the menus a bit and listend to the turorial lady the menu and navigation becomes clearer. My Problem is that I got a Repair Module that requires a Skillbook I don't posses, now during the Mission the Tuorial wants me to use the Repair Module, which isn't installed.

That really needs to be corrected, I have no real Ideas how to proceed, My Ship is damaged and if I just move on I probably die in the next fight :/ .



If you ever are missing something that the tutorial should have given you (Like it says it will give it to you or it goes "here take this skillbook/item") you can file a petition under Gameplay > Missions In Progress and talk to a GM and they can help you out so you can finish your tutorial. Please don't file a petition for things the tutorials wouldn't give you.


CCP should fix the tuturials. These situations should not exist for new players in their first few hours into the game. How the hell should they know how to file a petition. Most of them will just leave.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#44 - 2012-06-12 12:06:46 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:

CCP should fix the tuturials. These situations should not exist for new players in their first few hours into the game. How the hell should they know how to file a petition. Most of them will just leave.


CCP has an entire team dedicated to the NPE (New Player Experience) and I'm sure their To-Do List is quite long so they are working on a lot.

Developer Blog on the NPE Team: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3421

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-06-12 12:09:33 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:

CCP should fix the tuturials. These situations should not exist for new players in their first few hours into the game. How the hell should they know how to file a petition. Most of them will just leave.


CCP has an entire team dedicated to the NPE (New Player Experience) and I'm sure their To-Do List is quite long so they are working on a lot.

Developer Blog on the NPE Team: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3421


True, but the date on that blog is 2012.02.17 09:28:35. It shouldn't take months to fix the most obvious flaws in the system. They should give it priority, because new player retention is very important.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Luis Graca
#46 - 2012-06-12 12:13:58 UTC
Don't trust that graphic

The true grafhic
Luis Graca
#47 - 2012-06-12 12:15:25 UTC
Double post
seriously join a new player corp is much easier and better
Gen Fesslenski
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-06-12 12:16:23 UTC
Yuriko Deathstrike wrote:
* Why am i limited to slowwalking?
where would you run to? if they introduce WiS (walking in station) then i will complain about the slow walk.

* Big screen with ships, numbers, pilotnames. I absolutly have no clue what it means
Aura explains most of what the overview is...and no offense but use your head man. Took me about 5 seconds to realize what the overview was all about. Hmm...they have symbols assigned to things, and i see a unique name, and a distance column, and a item category column. And i can sort by any column, just like a lot of stuff i use IRL.

* My captainsquarters have like 10 walls. All walls are empty.
IMO people should worry less about eye candy in the CQ, and more about other meaningful things, like eye candy on your actual ship.

* Ok, i should talkt to this tutorialLady. She talks far to slow and boring. It's like someone is reading from a paper and not really talking to a person...
Aura is pretty useful if you listen to her, read her instructions and look at the little pictures that pop up. Otherwise if you have a poor attention span, you'll be asking questions like "i'm in space in a pod, what do i do?"

* This tutorialLady should be in my quarters and talk to me in person all the time, without me needing to press NEXT NEXT NEXT on that little ugly windows. If i miss something she said, i could press some REPEAT button.
maybe they can add a little yellow exclamation mark above her head too...

* Anyway, i thought i am in space. Where is my ship and where is the space? Where are other players?
* Damn, i am stuck in some tutorial step: I should open some of the GUI elements. But where is it? cant do nothing
listen to Aura, read Auras instructions, look at the little picture that pops up (its not just for show)

* I heard that the game is deep and complex, but this tutorial is just complicated and boring. How about that lady starts talking and gives some hints where to press on the screen to open that inventorywindow.... Cant open it... WHERE is it?
tutorial may be boring, but it is not complicated

* Pressing like crazy all possible icons. There are like 25 of them....
hover over the icons while you are in station

* How to undock from station?
hover over the icons while you are in station

* Ok i undocked, i am flying in some kind of capsule, I see some space, some station and nice zoom, but where is my ship and how do i fly this capsule? Why isnt that tutorialLady giving any hints? For 2 minutes silence.
I've done the tutorial 6-7 times now, and i can tell that you did not listen to Aura, and that you did not read what she said, and that you did not look at the little pop up window. I did all of those things, and i had zero problems getting the first space mission done

I've snipped the rest of your stuff because all i am getting is that you cannot follow simple instructions. When Aura or any agent gives you a mission, you only have to do 2-3 things before you can get on your way.

1) you have to read and in Auras case listen
2) you have to be able to comprehend what you are reading
3) you have to pay attention

If you do not or cannot do any of those, then you are gonna have a hard time. Also all that stuff you talked about regarding cutscenes and voiceovers? that stuff costs money, takes time and requires more work.

TLDR tutorials and EVE are working as intended, new players just need to adapt


He's new, and you're making yourself look stupid. For example, your first answer assumes he knows that WiS is a feature that hasnt been implemented. He does not. He doesn't even know how to switch to hangar view. From a new player perspective, *not* using walking in stations as a default view till its actually finished should have been the way a player is introduced. Starting with something pretty but useless is not how to introduce gamers to Eve.

That and tutorials suck. Theres no use saying that 'its way better than it was before' cos its still way worse than any other game. It needs a voiceover, and it needs to be rewritten so its not a wall of text. I skipped the tutorials and got myself podded by concord trying to find out what every button did when I first played Eve becasue, like any real gamer, I wasn't there to read walls of text. I was there to play internet spaceships.

Hell I only went back to the scanning tuts 2 months ago to learn before I went to WH space.

I'm probably nowhere near as experienced as you, but we've all been new, you seem to ahve forgotton it though.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-06-12 12:45:58 UTC
Gen Fesslenski wrote:


He's new, and you're making yourself look stupid. For example, your first answer assumes he knows that WiS is a feature that hasnt been implemented. He does not. He doesn't even know how to switch to hangar view. From a new player perspective, *not* using walking in stations as a default view till its actually finished should have been the way a player is introduced. Starting with something pretty but useless is not how to introduce gamers to Eve.

That and tutorials suck. Theres no use saying that 'its way better than it was before' cos its still way worse than any other game. It needs a voiceover, and it needs to be rewritten so its not a wall of text. I skipped the tutorials and got myself podded by concord trying to find out what every button did when I first played Eve becasue, like any real gamer, I wasn't there to read walls of text. I was there to play internet spaceships.

Hell I only went back to the scanning tuts 2 months ago to learn before I went to WH space.

I'm probably nowhere near as experienced as you, but we've all been new, you seem to ahve forgotton it though.


AURA has a voice over now.

You made the decision to skip the tutorial, they are called tutorials for a reason. They teach you what stuff does.

I agree, WiS and CQ are not a good way to start EVE as CQ is useless.

But really, I just think we spotted the main of the OPTwisted

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-06-12 12:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Gen Fesslenski wrote:
Wall of text.



AURA talks slow cause EVE is international. Some people don't understand English when it is spoken fast, and as EVE is only available in limited languages the best way is to slow it down so anybody can understand.

Tutorials are nice, but only start to learn EVE after the tutorials, by interacting with others and do things. (like driving lessons, they teach you how to drive a car, yet only after you passed the test and have your license the real learning starts).

Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom

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Muahashi Stenier-Tian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-06-12 12:58:08 UTC
Just remembered another problem I had.

Mission says: "go to point x and mine Y units of veldspar"

I go to the point X. I look around and can't see any veldspar. I go to other asteroid belt, and another, and another, all "empty".

Later on I realized I could travel to other system and mine there. But there were no instructions about it, and at that point, no instructions about changing the displayed items in the overview tab. I figured it out myself, but it could be better.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-06-12 13:03:34 UTC
Muahashi Stenier-Tian wrote:
Just remembered another problem I had.

Mission says: "go to point x and mine Y units of veldspar"

I go to the point X. I look around and can't see any veldspar. I go to other asteroid belt, and another, and another, all "empty".

Later on I realized I could travel to other system and mine there. But there were no instructions about it, and at that point, no instructions about changing the displayed items in the overview tab. I figured it out myself, but it could be better.


That is true,

it says point 'x" (where 'x' is a different named system then you are in at) but it should also tell you that systems are linked with gates and how you use them, and tell you could use the autopilot to plot your course (yellow gate system).

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Gen Fesslenski
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-06-12 13:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
An yes, Aura talks slow because Eve is international. But we have text translations for them, and its not exactly hard to speed up text using granular synthesis and keep its sounding natural. Trust me, I work as a music producer IRL.

That wasn't my problem anyway. My problem was that what Aura said was long and ineffective at teaching people, like that boring monotone teacher in class who said important suff every 5th sentence. If your RL friend can explain how to get out and about in 30 secs, Aura should be able to in less than 45. Game mechanics will be taught by other players, teach a newb how to move, shoot, use the inventory and talk to people then send him out.

And you can't compare eve not driving lessons because Eve is a game. Driving lessons ARE boring, but they are a neccesity. In games every neccesity has to be fun, becasue you play games to have fun right?

Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-06-12 13:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Hmz, you post stuff on a forum yet you don't want people to respond to it. :S

Also, feedback =/= complaining that entire thing is ****.

You have to keep in mind that EVE is made for global public and they have to make stuff so it can suit everybody.
AURA talking slow has a reason, but you don't have to listen, you can read the windows and click next at your own speed (at least you could about 1 month ago).
Missing skilbooks don't, complain about it, I will fully agree and don't understand that after months CCP hasn't fixed it yet.

Also sometimes things aren't clear, and you need to find them out yourself (by luck, trial&error or research).

Like shooting someone in high-sec will get you killed by CONCORD, I found that out the hard way. Asked around what happened, went to google and found how high-sec / low-sec / null-sec worked.

EVE is open to you as far as you want it to be. EVE is one of the few games where research pays off.

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CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2012-06-12 17:04:58 UTC
Thank you for this discussion. It actually has been quite useful :)

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
The Big Lebowski
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-12 19:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Quote:

It seems to me (oh dear I do it again), that the tutorials don't meet your expectations. Fair enough... but the game doesn't change much after the tutorials, so what then?

What the hell are you talking about? What does the presentation and walls of text in little ugly windows (in the first hour of your EVE time) have to do with gamemechanics? The tutorial is over afer 1 hour. NOTHING of gameplay changes after 1 hour. I am talking about the first hour and the way the tutorial is presented. Nobody wants to change anything on the game MECHANICS. Thats another story.

since someone accused me with only complaining but without providing any solutions...
Therefore i propose MY ABSOLUTLY SUBJECTIVE wish of changes of the first hour experience. I will just write the first thoughts i get. You kill the walls of text and replace them with something more suiteable for a spaceship game. And yes i know, that it would not be easy. It would take time ... so no rushing.

* Make Aura a hologram (heck if they can bring 2pac back as a hologram you can do that too)
* When you load your first screen, Aura spawns in the room and approaches you and talk in a way 2 human beeings would talk to each other. It should not feel like someone is reading from a piece of paper...
*
*
* She talks in a normal speed and feeds you with the most basic informations so that you not confuse the harsh world of eve with world of warcraft.
* Than she has to EXPLAIN the GUI and give you a fast short overview. MOST important part of game in the first 2 minutes. It is the connection between the player and EVE. Since we are in the captainsquarters she could use the big screen to explain the GUI. Not force you to read wall of text or only talk to you. but SHOW you. The big tv shows your GUI that you actualy see on your monitor. And since we love magic, we introduce 3 BUTTONS. Pause, Repeat last XX and show me text. Who knows, some ppl play without audio or are deaf.
* While she keeps on talking you hover over GUI elements and walk around your captainsquarter. So you get audio, video, text and power to press Next, Previous whenever you wish.
*
* stuff happens
*
* Now important: When you leave the station, there should be always Auras Head/Avatar in a window floating somewhere. Since she is a hologram it should not be that crazy to project her image somewhere on your screen. While she is giving you orders, so you learn the basic stuff in space, she is loaded with a FAQ which suits the actual task you are doing. If a task should. lets just pick here 8 seconds, and you are not yet done, Aura should approach you and ask whats the fraking problem. Thats called preemptive help. i just came up with it. But we do not want to spam a smart new player with a bunch of hints and advices, which he would not need in the few first seconds, so we have to wait a amount of time. Give the new player the freedom to think on his own, but do not let him feel as if he has lost control of what is happening.

* While you are flying/warping from A to B to do some who cares... Aura has 150 seconds to present you a nice CCP PROPAGANDA overview (trailer) what your possibilities in EVE are. You get audio, video, pictures BUT NO **** TEXT.
* You arrive at point B and BOOOM here come your careeragents into play. You saw the propagande just few moments ago, you maybe have a clue what might intereset you and you pick your first mission from that agent.
* Aura hologram is gone, the new agent hologram comes.

The tutorial has to be fluid without a bunch of lame ass text in a ugly windows.

And i do not see what false hopes a good interactive tutorial would raise with new players that EVE could not provide later.

I bet a lot of trials would stick to the game to just see whats next out there. Ppl still want to explore and shoot ships to pieces, but NOBODY who is right in his mind wants to scan 4x 100% identical anomalies in his first or second hour of EVE...

Edit: Lets keep the language clean and not avoid the filters - ISD Athechu
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-06-12 19:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
I do want changes.

But your complains are just ungrounded and should be fixed cause you don't like it.

Plenty of stuff that can be fixed in the tutorials.

But a real life AURA isn't a fix, it will only add another useless function in CQ that you can do without.
Cinematics when you kill someone isn't a fix, as it will mean huge server lag with all the mission runners having cinematics every second.

Also a lot changes after the tutorial as after that it is all up to what YOU want to do.
If nothing changed, that is YOUR OWN FAULT. You didn't nothing to change it.

Plenty of people have an exiting time after tutorial. Again, that friend of mine joined RvB after just 5 hours of playing and is happily joining their PvP fleets when he wants and moves to a quit spot to mission run for some ISK.

Quote:
* Make Aura a hologram (heck if they can bring 2pac back as a hologram you can do that too)
* When you load your first screen, Aura spawns in the room and approaches you and talk in a way 2 human beeings would talk to each other. It should not feel like someone is reading from a piece of paper...


How does this change the tutorials besides that aura is now just in front of you.

Quote:
She talks in a normal speed and feeds you with the most basic informations


She already does, and AGAIN, the slow speed is cause not everybody can understand English as easy.

Quote:
When you leave the station, there should be always Auras Head/Avatar in a window floating somewhere


You might have missed the tutorial windows which clearly shows Aura in the corner.

Quote:
You saw the propagande just few moments ago, you maybe have a clue what might intereset you and you pick your first mission from that agent.


Or you just run the 5 agents and find out what each has to offer and decide on that.

Quote:
Aura hologram is gone, the new agent hologram comes.

The tutorial has to be fluid without a bunch of lame ass text in a ugly windows.


Again, there is the conversation window you can just minimized, means it's in your left NEOCOM menu, easily accesible when you need it.

Also if you don't like windows, then you won't like EVE likely.
Missions = lots of windows (start conversation, dragging objectives to your inventory etc.)
MIning = lots of windows (cargohold, refining window, station inventory).
PvP = uuhm windows (overview, broadcasts, fleet chat (to enhance comms)).
Trading = all about windows (market, inventory, wallet).

Or sane people scan 4 times cause they know it will enhance their skill in scanning stuff down, maybe later on they will be able to scan down that ratting carrier to kill it.

Before CCP Spitfire will delete this (likely):

Tough up, play EVE the way you want it. EVE is player driven, it is what YOU make out of it

OR

Unsub, don't play and stop whining, nobody is forcing you to play the game. For you a dozen people who do appreciate EVE and keep playing.

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highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2012-06-12 19:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: highonpop
I spent the first hour of eve reading tutorials and flying around in my ship in awe at the universe around me... I loved how big it was and all the stuff you seemed to be able to do. I loved that you could fly in space. I loved how when you warped around in the system stuff actually moved around you... like you can watch the sun get closer and further away...

that was back in 2007.


Eve seems much smaller now, even thought its gotten bigger Lol

FC, what do?
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#59 - 2012-06-12 19:51:54 UTC
While this discussion is going well lets try to keep it on topic and stop the bashing and yelling at each other. I understand people have a difference of opinions but lets keep it constructive if you wish to argue please do it in private.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#60 - 2012-06-12 19:56:52 UTC
I've had many friends who are intense gamers not make it 2 hours in Eve. In nearly every game they play, they maneuver with WASD. I'll try to convince them that "clicking in space" really is flying a ship and you'll eventually get over it... but you know what? Only one ever has? It still irks me myself. I could probably lure many players to Eve if they could just fly their ships with WASD or a joystick.