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CSM7 Summit Topic: Null Sec

First post
Author
Lord Helghast
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2012-06-08 04:54:17 UTC
are we ever getting more ihub mods that we were promised,

what about ability to install station guns, or lock down gates or something to make owning a system worth it somehow
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#422 - 2012-06-08 06:29:42 UTC
Lord Helghast wrote:
are we ever getting more ihub mods that we were promised,

what about ability to install station guns, or lock down gates or something to make owning a system worth it somehow


Station guns?? Locking down gates?? You know for a null resident who rages at players in high sec for playing solo and being risk free, you sure sound like you don't want to interact with other players in null much. Straight
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#423 - 2012-06-08 07:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lord Helghast wrote:
are we ever getting more ihub mods that we were promised,

what about ability to install station guns, or lock down gates or something to make owning a system worth it somehow


Station guns?? Locking down gates?? You know for a null resident who rages at players in high sec for playing solo and being risk free, you sure sound like you don't want to interact with other players in null much. Straight

Locking down gates works in wormholes, and if it works in whs, it'll work in 0.0.
That's what the 'nerf local' lobby likes to say, after all.
What sort of dumb additional space-work proposal are you championing now, btw?
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#424 - 2012-06-09 19:28:59 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lord Helghast wrote:
are we ever getting more ihub mods that we were promised,

what about ability to install station guns, or lock down gates or something to make owning a system worth it somehow


Station guns?? Locking down gates?? You know for a null resident who rages at players in high sec for playing solo and being risk free, you sure sound like you don't want to interact with other players in null much. Straight


But see, the difference between nullsec risk management and highsec risk management is the difference of having players provide their own security, versus players demanding that the game actually protect them without those players having to lift a finger.

In other words, Nullsec is safe because of the efforts of the people living there, whereas highsec is safe because of NPC space police. Now, in a player-driven game like EVE, which do you think is more deserving of actually having that safety?

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#425 - 2012-06-11 03:20:37 UTC
Obvious question, why does null sec continue get its own topic focus yet other regions do not? I had thought the CSM came under the opinion that this area bias wasn't relevant as per the various PR stunts on EVE Radio and the CSM 7 campaigning?

Whilst I recognise null might have its own relevant topics the continual neglect or demonstration of not showing focus to other areas also at the same time even by continual omission simply shows a presumptious and neglectfull stance on topic discussion by the CSM and simply continues to promote to others the focus the CSM appears to have. (Even if for some this isnt a suprise).

So will this leopard ever change its spots, or is it culturally just following tradition as opposed to player concerns on topics. Either way it continues to highlight problems in the CSM focus despite the lip service.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#426 - 2012-06-11 06:26:47 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Obvious question, why does null sec continue get its own topic focus yet other regions do not? I had thought the CSM came under the opinion that this area bias wasn't relevant as per the various PR stunts on EVE Radio and the CSM 7 campaigning?

Whilst I recognise null might have its own relevant topics the continual neglect or demonstration of not showing focus to other areas also at the same time even by continual omission simply shows a presumptious and neglectfull stance on topic discussion by the CSM and simply continues to promote to others the focus the CSM appears to have. (Even if for some this isnt a suprise).

So will this leopard ever change its spots, or is it culturally just following tradition as opposed to player concerns on topics. Either way it continues to highlight problems in the CSM focus despite the lip service.

Highseccers should be crossing their fingers and praying that CCP never starts looking seriously at what changes need to be made to their particular corner of space.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#427 - 2012-06-11 07:02:13 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Obvious question, why does null sec continue get its own topic focus yet other regions do not? I had thought the CSM came under the opinion that this area bias wasn't relevant as per the various PR stunts on EVE Radio and the CSM 7 campaigning?

Whilst I recognise null might have its own relevant topics the continual neglect or demonstration of not showing focus to other areas also at the same time even by continual omission simply shows a presumptious and neglectfull stance on topic discussion by the CSM and simply continues to promote to others the focus the CSM appears to have. (Even if for some this isnt a suprise).

So will this leopard ever change its spots, or is it culturally just following tradition as opposed to player concerns on topics. Either way it continues to highlight problems in the CSM focus despite the lip service.

Highseccers should be crossing their fingers and praying that CCP never starts looking seriously at what changes need to be made to their particular corner of space.


So says an extremely biased null seccer. One who is still likley crying about all the failures and mistakes made by their own organisation and leaders idiocy who are well known to take meta interests to a absurd level. Why would I be suprised by this kind of overly biased and known predjudical opinion? Lol

Regardless I will wait for an answer from a CSM member about the exclusion of topics at least then it will hold some validity and relevance. Blink
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#428 - 2012-06-11 07:05:09 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Obvious question, why does null sec continue get its own topic focus yet other regions do not? I had thought the CSM came under the opinion that this area bias wasn't relevant as per the various PR stunts on EVE Radio and the CSM 7 campaigning?

Whilst I recognise null might have its own relevant topics the continual neglect or demonstration of not showing focus to other areas also at the same time even by continual omission simply shows a presumptious and neglectfull stance on topic discussion by the CSM and simply continues to promote to others the focus the CSM appears to have. (Even if for some this isnt a suprise).

So will this leopard ever change its spots, or is it culturally just following tradition as opposed to player concerns on topics. Either way it continues to highlight problems in the CSM focus despite the lip service.

Highseccers should be crossing their fingers and praying that CCP never starts looking seriously at what changes need to be made to their particular corner of space.


No, they should be praying that CCP start this process 9AM this mornng. The sooner we ditch the outdated and obviously wrong idea that hi-sec is a starter area, the sooner we can start making it better for everyone (except utterly risk averse people I guess, but who cares about them?)

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#429 - 2012-06-11 07:10:13 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Regardless I will wait for an answer from a CSM member about the exclusion of topics at least then it will hold some validity and relevance. Blink


I'm sure they'll get right on addressing your accusation poorly disguised as a question.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#430 - 2012-06-11 07:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Snow Axe wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Regardless I will wait for an answer from a CSM member about the exclusion of topics at least then it will hold some validity and relevance. Blink


I'm sure they'll get right on addressing your accusation poorly disguised as a question.


I think the CSM has more credibility and a bit more sanity and awareness about it now that it is less influenced by extremists with absurd views. I actually think they will be able to see it as trying to improve communications more than seeing it as an accusation. As such I think they might be a bit more mature than other certain EVE cultures about being able to accomodate more interests than a narrow mindset. Blink

I'm sure they will be able of seeing this as a fair criticism as to why certain areas have continued to receive a focus due to them having an historical bias previously in the CSM topic content. I doubt they would be so scared of introducing more topic content for discussion pertaining to other regions as a result, especially after describing how much of a diverse interest set they have regarding EVE and also since they have previously promoted this awareness to the EVE player base.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#431 - 2012-06-11 08:17:16 UTC
If only the world was a perfect place so everything could be implemented instantly, instead of having to be prioritized.

If only.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#432 - 2012-06-11 08:49:03 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
If only the world was a perfect place so everything could be implemented instantly, instead of having to be prioritized.

If only.


Except from a point of omission or neglect to see the big picture due to ignorance or predjudice to issues then this "prioritisation" the Goons like to use as they supposed effectual political rambling aid is just another exclamation to the full level of ignorance they like to think they have full control over CSM or CCP with.

It doesn't escape the EVE community the obvious tactics they like to think they can employ. Shame they don't have an offical voice on the CSM this year though to make this most "effective" for those selfish interests though really eh?

It will be interesting to see who if any on the CSM will pander to the old schoolboy way of continuing to think about these issues in a similar manner however especially after all the rhetoric employed on the subject to placate the EVE playbase about bias.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#433 - 2012-06-11 09:38:10 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Except from a point of omission or neglect to see the big picture due to ignorance or predjudice to issues then this "prioritisation" the Goons like to use as they supposed effectual political rambling aid is just another exclamation to the full level of ignorance they like to think they have full control over CSM or CCP with.

This isn't a politician's forum, there's no need to bust out the dictionary to try to appear smart.

Grumpy Owly wrote:
It doesn't escape the EVE community the obvious tactics they like to think they can employ. Shame they don't have an offical voice on the CSM this year though to make this most "effective" for those selfish interests though really eh?

I thought you had Issler. vOv

Grumpy Owly wrote:
It will be interesting to see who if any on the CSM will pander to the old schoolboy way of continuing to think about these issues in a similar manner however especially after all the rhetoric employed on the subject to placate the EVE playbase about bias.

Hisec is being tweaked. They just got a new crimewatch system, for one. I'm sure the new crimewatch is much better suited to being expanded with new functionality such as bounty hunting than the old aggression system or whatever it was they called it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#434 - 2012-06-11 10:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Lord Zim wrote:
I thought you had Issler. vOv


Except again you missunderstand, my point was about official Goon CSM representation or the obvious lack of it, not about any CSM member representing mining. Besides there are other candidates representing other regional interests also.

Quote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
It will be interesting to see who if any on the CSM will pander to the old schoolboy way of continuing to think about these issues in a similar manner however especially after all the rhetoric employed on the subject to placate the EVE playbase about bias.

Hisec is being tweaked. They just got a new crimewatch system, for one. I'm sure the new crimewatch is much better suited to being expanded with new functionality such as bounty hunting than the old aggression system or whatever it was they called it.


Hope so, long over due. Shame your organisation doesnt seem to echo your desire to see EVE improved with an effective BH system.

But the point was not intended to be limited to just crimewatch related issues as you seem to have missintepreted, but all other non-null regional interests, which also includes worm holes and low sec environments aswell as high sec interests.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#435 - 2012-06-11 11:27:09 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I thought you had Issler. vOv


Except again you missunderstand, my point was about official Goon CSM representation or the obvious lack of it, not about any CSM member representing mining. Besides there are other candidates representing other regional interests also.

I've no idea what relevance this should have on anything.

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Hope so, long over due. Shame your organisation doesnt seem to echo your desire to see EVE improved with an effective BH system.

Have we said we're against a bountyhunter system?

Grumpy Owly wrote:
But the point was not intended to be limited to just crimewatch related issues as you seem to have missintepreted, but all other non-null regional interests, which also includes worm holes and low sec environments aswell as high sec interests.

What would a bounty hunter do in lowsec/nullsec which he isn't able to do now?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#436 - 2012-06-11 15:15:39 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:

Regardless I will wait for an answer from a CSM member about the exclusion of topics at least then it will hold some validity and relevance. Blink



I think once the summit minutes are out you'll find that your fears of "null sec bias" on the current council (or even more so, on CCP's part) are misplaced.

Despite having a dedicated session, null sec issues hardly dominated the recent summit discussions. Also, plenty of other sessions overlapped and contained content highly relevant to low and null sec (content, the war dec system & crimewatch, mining and industry, faciton warfare, the economy, new player experience).

In other words, you can't really evaluate how much one area of space was discussed or where it is in the coming pipeline just by whether it had a dedicated session at the summit. Many incursion enthusiasts, for example, felt slighted because of the lack of a session named "incursions" despite the fact that they appeared in multiple other sessions as a topic of discussion.

High sec is currently receiving a lot of development love front and center, low sec issues are less concrete at the moment, other than the recent work on Faction Warfare, but null sec issues are pretty sharply defined and compartmentalized, due to most of them being left over from Dominion. Thus, it's easier to hold a focused talk on null sec issues and fixes, even if they aren't imminently being worked on by CCP.

Rest assured Empire space was by no means slighted!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#437 - 2012-06-11 19:39:48 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Highseccers should be crossing their fingers and praying that CCP never starts looking seriously at what changes need to be made to their particular corner of space.


No, they should be praying that CCP start this process 9AM this mornng. The sooner we ditch the outdated and obviously wrong idea that hi-sec is a starter area, the sooner we can start making it better for everyone (except utterly risk averse people I guess, but who cares about them?)

All Eve players interested in a healthy, longlived Eve universe should be hoping for highsec to be fundamentally reformed as soon as possible.

However highseccers, or at least the handful of loudmouths who purport to represent them, have to date shown little sign of putting the wellbeing of Eve above their own desire to secure for themselves all the rewards and none of the risks.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#438 - 2012-06-12 00:37:49 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Bossy Lady wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Highseccers should be crossing their fingers and praying that CCP never starts looking seriously at what changes need to be made to their particular corner of space.


No, they should be praying that CCP start this process 9AM this mornng. The sooner we ditch the outdated and obviously wrong idea that hi-sec is a starter area, the sooner we can start making it better for everyone (except utterly risk averse people I guess, but who cares about them?)

All Eve players interested in a healthy, longlived Eve universe should be hoping for highsec to be fundamentally reformed as soon as possible.

However highseccers, or at least the handful of loudmouths who purport to represent them, have to date shown little sign of putting the wellbeing of Eve above their own desire to secure for themselves all the rewards and none of the risks.


You do realize one could easily replace highseccers with nullseccers and the shoe would fit just as well?

As far as the people proclaiming I have screamed local should be removed without doing a complete directional scanner revamp is of course lying their ass off.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#439 - 2012-06-12 05:09:50 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
As far as the people proclaiming I have screamed local should be removed without doing a complete directional scanner revamp is of course lying their ass off.

Every "suggestion" I've seen which begins with "remove local", even if it says "revamp the directional scanner" has been unequivocally a buff to gankers/cloaked ships, with little to no subsequent real change for those who actually try to live somewhere. But I'm sure your suggestions are ~different~.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

evereplicant
Doomheim
#440 - 2012-06-12 06:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: evereplicant
my list and ive been in nullsec for a lot of years

- Tech moons or any high income moons such as prom and dyspro. Remove them either completely or randomise them every month!. Alliances should be made to work for these massive isk makers! I dont want to hear about maintaining pos, and the effort. Its easy, even easier now with blocks of fuel. You stick up a pos its mods and fuel it, then jsut continue to fuel it. Thats not much effort. Constant risk free pvp because alliances make billions from doing nothing and pay for anything and everything is beyond a joke! Stop it now!

- Stop alliances owning region after region and not even living in it! and then creaming it from renters! To allow more people to own space alliances can only have sov in 1 region and only hold 51% of the stations in that region

- Limit alliance numbers to 2000! Its not right people like goons and test can control the whole of eve! No No No!

- Limit the number of blues! Eve has become a complete napfest now! Having this set to a limit allows people to think about who really there friends are and who they choose not to be

The above two will allow smaller alliances to compete and own space! and create more pew pew.

- Remove warp bubbles - Seriously WTF - Stop lazy ass gameplay. We have dictors and hictors for that! You want to camp a gate then get the right ship and be prepared to fight for it! Drag bubbles again WTF. Lets camp 100Km off a gate!

- Remove jump bridges! Seriously WTF - You want to move through space get a gang to escort you! Wheres the Risk?