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Suicide Gankers - The New Soon to be Carebears or Not?
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highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2012-06-11 16:54:03 UTC
Suicide ganking = Removing apathy from the game
Suicide Ganking = Drive up market values


if someone was thinking it was about something else, they missed about 100000 memos

FC, what do?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#62 - 2012-06-11 16:54:09 UTC
Aldeskwatso wrote:
Now there is an assumption if I ever saw one. I wonder, what do you think I actually think on this subject?
I think that you think that gankers, “by those actions alone, look like carebears”.
The problem is that the actions you're referring to are made up by you and based on your assumptions. I'm not assuming anything — I'm looking at the lack of proof you have for the claims you make about what gankers say and do.

Quote:
Actually, why can't you give a straight awnser and elaborate on that instead of trying to debunk my reasoning which is based on my own observations and experience.
Because your reasoning doesn't seem to be on very good footing, but rather seems to be a strawman argument.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#63 - 2012-06-11 16:59:07 UTC
I am a suicide ganker AND a carebear. Whatever is to become of me???
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#64 - 2012-06-11 17:00:11 UTC
Vicky Somers wrote:
I am a suicide ganker AND a carebear. Whatever is to become of me???

Total protonic reversal.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#65 - 2012-06-11 17:12:59 UTC
Aldeskwatso wrote:
Overall suicide gankers do give off an air of feeling superior towards their victims.


90% of people think they're smarter than average.

Considering yourself superior to others is something every group does. Gankers, miners, industrialists, mission runners, people in all security sections, soloers, people in corporations - the attitude you're complaining about comes from every type of player in EVE.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#66 - 2012-06-11 17:42:06 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
....we usually hear a response that sounds almost as ludicrous as saying a beautiful woman should have every right to walk down a dark street at night alone wearing nothing but a bra and panties and not be a victim.

Beautiful women (and ugly women, and ugly dudes) have the right to walk down the street at night and not be a victim. I'm not sure what country you're in, but in mine, attacking another person is illegal. Even if they're wearing a bikini and it's night time.

While I'm at it, did you notice your analogy boils down to 'gankers are like rapists'?

If your intent was to defend ganking, I'd suggest that's not the best argument.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Ivoto
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2012-06-11 18:02:16 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Carebears physically fear


Fear isnt a physical thing. Its mental. Genius.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2012-06-11 18:07:20 UTC
Ivoto wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Carebears physically fear
Fear isnt a physical thing.
…aside from the physical effects that accompany it.
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-06-11 18:11:22 UTC
Liliana Rahl wrote:
so many words to cry about suicide gankers...


Anything that bring down the quality of eve is something to cry about. Whatever happen to empire building.
Didnt start this game to play with a bunch of pu$$ys killing mining ships
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#70 - 2012-06-11 18:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kijo Rikki
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
....we usually hear a response that sounds almost as ludicrous as saying a beautiful woman should have every right to walk down a dark street at night alone wearing nothing but a bra and panties and not be a victim.

Beautiful women (and ugly women, and ugly dudes) have the right to walk down the street at night and not be a victim. I'm not sure what country you're in, but in mine, attacking another person is illegal. Even if they're wearing a bikini and it's night time.

While I'm at it, did you notice your analogy boils down to 'gankers are like rapists'?

If your intent was to defend ganking, I'd suggest that's not the best argument.


This argument was covered between me and Tippia a few pages back. The illegality of it doesn't make it not happen, which is why I believe the right doesn't really exist. The whole point was supposed to be that you shouldn't rely on a right to keep you safe, because it won't. So if you're smart, you do everything you can within reason to lessen the odds that you will become a target or victim.

And Edit:
Quote:
gankers are like rapists
In a loose sense of methodology, they are. They have no regard for the laws set forth by the citizens and authority of New Eden. They often study and stalk their prey, and they usually pick off the careless and vulnerable. One could even say they get a rush or thrill from doing it, so they do it again and again.

Personally, I wasn't thinking about that though, my mind went straight to murder. I tend to see the worst in society.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#71 - 2012-06-11 18:14:47 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Carebears physically fear losing their ship. Suicide gankers don't fear losing their ship.

vOv


But why then, do they carry on about risk? Risk and fear go hand in hand.

John Hancock
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2012-06-11 18:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
MasterEnt wrote:
Anything that bring down the quality of eve is something to cry about.
Well, that certainly explains the crying about miners who want to change the game for no good reason.

Quote:
Whatever happen to empire building.
Still there.

Quote:
Didnt start this game to play with a bunch of pu$$ys killing mining ships
So don't.

Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
But why then, do they carry on about risk? Risk and fear go hand in hand.
Not really, no. Threats and fear go hand in hand. Risk doesn't need to be perceived as a threat.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#73 - 2012-06-11 18:15:16 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Liliana Rahl wrote:
so many words to cry about suicide gankers...


Anything that bring down the quality of eve is something to cry about. Whatever happen to empire building.
Didnt start this game to play with a bunch of pu$$ys killing mining ships

People building their empires don't want you to. You are their competition.

Crappy strategies employed in flimsy ships by people who don't want to put in effort almost do our work for us.

There are ways miners can mine and not be ganked.

Because these strategies exist, suicide gankers actually do improve the quality of Eve. They do this by demonstrating beyond a reasonable doubt that fail strategy is fail in Eve Online.

Miners just won't put forth the :effort: so they get what's coming to them.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#74 - 2012-06-11 18:35:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
It's not risky PVP, it's buy low, sell high.
…which in itself is risky PvP, since the buying and selling are both PvP and since there are risks involved that may remove those “low” and “high” parts.

I'm not sure how *some* of it can be called risky.

A while back I bought a rare antique book at an estate sale for $4. The market value on that book was estimated at over $500. Even if I get 10% of that, I make a profit. The risk of losing money on that investment is so low that it was never a consideration.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#75 - 2012-06-11 18:48:08 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I'm not sure how *some* of it can be called risky.
Because the random factors may mean that the cost is much higher than you expect, and that the stuff you can sell is worth much less (or might not even exist at all).

Quote:
A while back I bought a rare antique book at an estate sale for $4. The market value on that book was estimated at over $500. Even if I get 10% of that, I make a profit. The risk of losing money on that investment is so low that it was never a consideration.
Did the book have a 50% chance of exploding the moment you tried to pick it up?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#76 - 2012-06-11 18:54:25 UTC
comon tippia we all know the that profit for killing hulks goes right into the hands of the people who make the ships and isk fauset the items for ship production...

that is why they pay the isk for hulkageddon... the risk the ganker takes is nothing in comparison with the sick twisted feeling they get and smile when they kill a mining ship... so if its tanked and you just lost 2.5 milliion isk with out a kill is not really risk...

i play in 0.0 all the time and if i am not carefull i can loose 100 m + in just one fail jump... now that is risk...

killing a hulk is not risk... flying a hulk in high sec is mega risk atm...

and you and i both know it...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-06-11 18:57:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Aldeskwatso]No. It's someone who refuses to even risk that.


What you gankers do after every gank? Hide in complete safety of station.

Hek, even can flippers run away if there's even a small chance they lose their ship.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#78 - 2012-06-11 18:58:09 UTC
Ivoto wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Carebears physically fear


Fear isnt a physical thing. Its mental. Genius.

The mental is physical. Lose your amygdala and you'll never feel fear again.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Aldeskwatso
Primus Societas
Crimson Interstellar Alliance
#79 - 2012-06-11 19:05:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Aldeskwatso wrote:
Now there is an assumption if I ever saw one. I wonder, what do you think I actually think on this subject?
I think that you think that gankers, “by those actions alone, look like carebears”.
The problem is that the actions you're referring to are made up by you and based on your assumptions. I'm not assuming anything — I'm looking at the lack of proof you have for the claims you make about what gankers say and do.

Quote:
Actually, why can't you give a straight awnser and elaborate on that instead of trying to debunk my reasoning which is based on my own observations and experience.
Because your reasoning doesn't seem to be on very good footing, but rather seems to be a strawman argument.


If you understood what you just posted here you'd know what I meant and didn't post this in the first place.

I got just this. People can have different interpretations about identical experiences. They are essentially both neither wrong or right due to that they are imprinted within a personal context from which past experiences dictate how those experience are ultimatly interpreted and acted uppon. A whole debate about if my reasoning is right or wrong or if you agree or disagree is pointless. I'm just curious if other people share my point of view. Some appear to do so, other partially and some don't.

You are fixating so much on how my point of view came to be and missing what the actual point of view is. Or you don't care which makes you an evil troll...!!!

Anyway, Donny! You're out of you element!

The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2012-06-11 19:06:52 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
comon tippia we all know the that profit for killing hulks goes right into the hands of the people who make the ships and isk fauset the items for ship production.
Yes? And? That doesn't change the risk for the ganker or alter Floppie's “PvP as buy low, sell high” scenario — it just explains why the goons launched HG∞.

Quote:
killing a hulk is not risk... flying a hulk in high sec is mega risk atm.
Killing a Hulk is the same risk as killing anything else in highsec. Flying a Hulk is the same risk as flying any other popular target. Both risks can be mitigated.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
What you gankers do after every gank?
No idea. Why do you ask me?

Quote:
Hek, even can flippers run away if there's even a small chance they lose their ship.
I live in The Citadel, so I have no idea what goes on in Hek. And yes? So what? They're managing and mitigating their risk. That's pretty much the final proof that the risk is there, and that they're not refusing to risk those ships.