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Why some of us don't PVP as much as we'd like to, and what can be done to fix that.
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Warpshade
Warped Industries
#121 - 2012-06-09 18:12:48 UTC
Only thing I would suggest or prefer, would be to reduce the jump clone timer by 30mins to an hour to take into account server down time everyday. Because as it stands currently its not really a once a day jump, as it's implied because of this fact. That way it would atleast make clone jumping alittle more convenient, however beggars cant be choosers I guess.
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#122 - 2012-06-09 18:19:09 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Ahah! You're the alt of the alt who posted the pod thread, aren't you!

/If it weren't for you meddling kids! :shakes fist:


Yeah, I decided to make a thread for it because it was too obscure in the other one.

Actually I am the alt of Freezehunter, who is forum banned due to err "personal attacks".
Which is ******** if you think about it, since I can post on the same account with my 2 alts.



FIRST
Quote:

Warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum.

Such matters shall remain private between the CCP and the user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through e-mail or private messaging. Likewise, discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum. If you have questions regarding a post or thread, please file a petition.



SECOND
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Ban evasion is not allowed.

Forum bans are enacted when a user grossly violates forum rules. While they are rarely executed, they are done with the community’s interest in mind. Attempts to bypass a ban will result in additional ban(s) and may result in a permanent ban of your forum account(s).


THIRD

IBTL and your permaban
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#123 - 2012-06-09 18:19:47 UTC
So you refuse to pvp because you dont want to lose out on training time on skills you will no be using because you refuse to pvp with implants.

So whats the point in training those skills in the first place?
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#124 - 2012-06-09 18:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Goldheart
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Ahah! You're the alt of the alt who posted the pod thread, aren't you!

/If it weren't for you meddling kids! :shakes fist:


Yeah, I decided to make a thread for it because it was too obscure in the other one.

Actually I am the alt of Freezehunter, who is forum banned due to err "personal attacks".
Which is ******** if you think about it, since I can post on the same account with my 2 alts.



FIRST
Quote:

Warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum.

Such matters shall remain private between the CCP and the user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through e-mail or private messaging. Likewise, discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum. If you have questions regarding a post or thread, please file a petition.



SECOND
Quote:

Ban evasion is not allowed.

Forum bans are enacted when a user grossly violates forum rules. While they are rarely executed, they are done with the community’s interest in mind. Attempts to bypass a ban will result in additional ban(s) and may result in a permanent ban of your forum account(s).


THIRD

IBTL and your permaban



Chill the F out, man.

If I can talk from an alt on the same account then it's obviously the way it's supposed to work, I am not evading anything.

Also, your post is grossly off topic, tell me **** like that when you are a mod here, otherwise GTFO.

This is a constructive thread, if you look past the trolls and idiot throwaway alts like you.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#125 - 2012-06-10 13:09:24 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
If I can talk from an alt on the same account then it's obviously the way it's supposed to work, I am not evading anything.

Also, your post is grossly off topic, tell me **** like that when you are a mod here, otherwise GTFO.

This is a constructive thread, if you look past the trolls and idiot throwaway alts like you.

The forum is full of busybodies and asshats isn't it...
The Riddik
Dark Club
#126 - 2012-06-10 13:23:43 UTC
why do you want to force people to play the game the way you want it?

eve is a sandbox. if i pay a monthly fee, i can do whatever the f%ck i want to, and you peons cannot do anything but whine.

how bout this, if you a$$hats want the game changed to suit you so much go make your own game
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#127 - 2012-06-10 13:56:53 UTC
ITT: people claiming that risking 35M worth of implants makes them pussy out of PvP, but at the same time pretending that risking 70M worth of ship won't

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#128 - 2012-06-11 14:38:54 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
ITT: people claiming that risking 35M worth of implants makes them ***** out of PvP, but at the same time pretending that risking 70M worth of ship won't


Exactly. Even a set of +4s isn't *that* expensive. ~110 mil for all five, and most of us can get by with 3 or 4 depending on the planned training.

I just did some math on +5 implants. They'll give you a 3.7-4.76% increase in attribute points over +4s, depending on your mapping. I don't consider that a good return on investment. If you're so concerned with skill queues that you use them, You probably aren't doing PVP.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Xing Duchance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-06-11 14:47:46 UTC
Its about choice.

You want to learn faster you plug one in.

You want affordable PvP you dont plug one in

OR

You want affordable PvP you jump to a clone.

Make your choice, don't expect everything to be given to you on a plate.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2012-06-11 15:02:36 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
A good way to make people like me get into PVP way more is to remove attribute implants from the game, and if possible the whole attribute system, all it does is cause headaches and petitions.

And don't start with the "but you have jump clones" bullshit, jump clones have a HUGE timer, and by the time the timer expires, there is already another fleet I have to get into the next day, and it's basically like not being in a +4clone at all.

Not to mention that every time a fleet is made, 80 % of the people on ANY alliance's comms go like "sorry, but my clone timer is not ready..." which leads to less PVP.

So the fixes to this BS would be:

1) Remove attribute implants and just give +5 to everyone from the start, permanently.

OR

2) Remove attribute implants AND THE WHOLE ATTRIBUTE SYSTEM, and just have set training times from 1 to 5 on all skill tiers to balance it. (hardwires would just have their attribute bonus removed, easy).

OR

3) Make pods immune to warp bubbles (make up a lore reason like "They are too small for the frequency of the sphere to affect their warp drive, which is a special, miniaturized Jovian version), because getting caught in a bubble when your ship explodes pretty much means that you will get podded 99% of the time, hell, it even happens on the test server where there is no real need to pod people. Catching and killing a pod should be a difficult and rewarding task, not just a kill you basically get offered on a silver platter if the pod is in a bubble. They are, after all, MADE to protect it's occupant's life.

OR

4) Make the jump clone timer way less, like 6 hours, and that could be lowered to 1 hour by training a skill to lvl 5, -1 hour per level.

OR

5) Add a way to be able to remove your implant sets for a fee, or add an "implant hub" that can hold a whole implant set, and that can be removed at will, but doesn't allow hardwires to be plugged in if the hub is not in use.

Also it is not fair that high sec care bears, who do nothing but **** the economy up by causing inflation, get to stay in their +4 and +5 implants and super pimped out faction ships, 100% safe, and not do anything but make more and more money, and train skills very fast with no risk, get to do all that.

I understand that attribute implants are supposed to be an ISK sink, but wouldn't a ship crew system where you would have to pay a salary to your crew every month be a better ISK sink?

At least that way everyone would have to spend money, not just people who want to PVP, while care bears and traders get stinking rich.

It is absolutely stupid that we have to worry about losing our ships and fittings and 120+ million Isk for the attribute implant sets most of us use (+4) + our expensive clones every time we get podded, just for the sake of not training slowly as hell.

Seriously, flying a BS or a stealth bomber or a BC or interceptor tackler in a fleet, and basically losing 4-500 mil worth of ISKper death is bullshit, some of us have real lives and we can't afford to lose crap tons of isk like that.

Thank you for reading.



What I'm hearing you say is, " if ccp would just remove some of the financial risk people would pvp more". I'm afraid I disagree on three counts.

One, even if you remove all implants from the game and give everyone all buffs for free people would still hesitate.. it's been drilled into peoples heads over and over (unless they are a noob) never risk more than you can afford to lose - there are far greater possible losses out their than a few +5 implants.. Many of the non pvpers just don't have the income to risk what they think is a good pvp platform so they stay away. What needs to change is the way they pvp - the way they think about pvp - and what they are willing to fly to pvp in... not the implants. My guess is no player behavior would change removing the implants.

Two, why would you give implant bonuses to all players and take away implants.. if you want to remove them go back to the base rate.

Three, taking away the risk from the game dumbs down one of the unique things that separates eve from other mmos out there.. even other "hardcore" mmos aren't as brutal as eve. changing that.. is not a very popular move.

You have jump clones that can wear enitrely different sets of implants if you wish.. you can avoid losing the implants all together by swapping clones.. Just activate your jump clone when you aren't going to pvp for a while and gain the leanring boosts - then jump back later when you are in the pvp mood...

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-06-11 16:26:34 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Bossy Lady wrote:
ITT: people claiming that risking 35M worth of implants makes them ***** out of PvP, but at the same time pretending that risking 70M worth of ship won't


Exactly. Even a set of +4s isn't *that* expensive. ~110 mil for all five, and most of us can get by with 3 or 4 depending on the planned training.

I just did some math on +5 implants. They'll give you a 3.7-4.76% increase in attribute points over +4s, depending on your mapping. I don't consider that a good return on investment. If you're so concerned with skill queues that you use them, You probably aren't doing PVP.



Yeah depending on how long it goes between podding I usually have 2-4 +4 implants and a hardwire or two........for each jump clone. Really though, 80mil for the pod is small change next to most of the ships. Its just the cost of doing business.


Oh wait, this is getting into PvP.

HTFU your pod is pretty damn safe in low-sec. You have to either run across a specifically built camp that has a locker that can catch a pod or screw it up to get podded.
Velarra
#132 - 2012-06-11 17:12:45 UTC
Was this topic brought up and commented on by a ccp dev during the recent fan fest, during the live feed between presentations? Or was it at one of the presentations?

Particularly:
-Clone costs (re: drunk 0.0 rifter roams being less than casual undertakings after a few years of play on one's main)
-Attribute Implant existence
-Medical clone services and their availability vs. their continued benefit to Eve in general.
- Recognition that perhaps the issue was more than a matter of clone/attribute implant but the handling of clones as a whole due to Eve's age.