These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Plight of the Rifter
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Suqq Madiq
#61 - 2012-06-08 18:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Suqq Madiq
Jones Bones wrote:
Bad pilots flying good ships still equals **** results.

Sorry baddies.


And bad pilots camping the same highsec gate in the same lowsec system for months at a time in double sebo'd Tech 3 cruisers with offgrid boosters and cloaked Rapier and Falcon alts nearby still equals, well, why don't you tell us Jones Bones, you're the expert. Big smile
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-06-08 22:15:33 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
No, they don't. A thrasher goes 1.9 km/s with a MWD, has 56 base sig, and aligns in 4 seconds. That's way closer to frigate level than cruiser level.


Try fighting cruisers/BC with a WMDing thrasher, then try fighting it in a frigate. You will notice getting pewed quite a bit more in one of the two ;) Also the lack of slots means you lacking in something important somewhere, you just can't pack any versatility into a fit.

Destroyers are damn good still, especially at pewing small stuff, but not better than frigs overall.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#63 - 2012-06-08 22:21:20 UTC
That's not the point. You said they had "No speed", and that the sig of cruisers. Those two things are objectively false.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-06-08 22:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Pirate Pete
Kahega Amielden wrote:
That's not the point. You said they had "No speed", and that the sig of cruisers.


----compared to a T1 frig... yes...? Straight

Quote:
Those two things are objectively false.


If my use of hyperbole has offended you, I profusely apologize







Roll
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-06-08 23:10:52 UTC
The Rifter is still good but it need to be flown like one now. It's speed still gives it a big advantage if you fly it right.

It used to be a ship that was very noob friendly, easy to fit, easy to get good tank and dps. Now it is a ship that rewards good piloting and situation awareness. The Rifter will be the real pro choice. 'Orbit at 500m' merchants need to look elsewhere.
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-06-10 14:59:29 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
This is exactly the response I was hoping for.


So what you're saying is, you just came on here to rant and posted so you would get people to agree with you?

Makes sense. If you're not interested in a discussion, that is.

Suqq Madiq wrote:
It was over-balanced, and is yet another Caldari platform that outshines it's racial counterparts by leaps and bounds.


I know yeah I really wish that..
the thrasher was as good as the corm
the rupture was as good as the moa
the hurricane was as good as the drake
the typhoon was as good as the scorpion
the tempest was as good as the raven
the maelstrom was as good as the rokh
I also wish my vaga was as good as the eagle

There are good and bad ships in every class. Deal with it.

Also, adapt or GTFO?
Suqq Madiq
#67 - 2012-06-10 15:26:44 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
garbage


Oh look, fresh from getting their asses handed to them by Eve University, Space Police has joined the fray.

I'm glad you could make it, really, and I know you were busy and all, but this conversation was played out days ago.
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-06-10 21:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: lollerwaffle
Suqq Madiq wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
garbage


Oh look, fresh from getting their asses handed to them by Eve University, Space Police has joined the fray.

I'm glad you could make it, really, and I know you were busy and all, but this conversation was played out days ago.


Oh look, random forum alt who's qq-ing over nothing like a little baby..

Want a tissue?

ps I don't even play the game just on to read posts from whiners like you so I feel better that my kids aren't like you
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#69 - 2012-06-11 02:33:15 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Bad pilots flying good ships still equals **** results.

Sorry baddies.


And bad pilots camping the same highsec gate in the same lowsec system for months at a time in double sebo'd Tech 3 cruisers with offgrid boosters and cloaked Rapier and Falcon alts nearby still equals, well, why don't you tell us Jones Bones, you're the expert. Big smile


LOL UMAD? No wait, UBAD!
Suqq Madiq
#70 - 2012-06-11 03:17:37 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm so bad I fit ECM on Thrashers.


fyp
Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-06-11 03:50:46 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm so bad I fit ECM on Thrashers.


fyp


The sad thing is, fitting ecm on minor plex ships is VERY VERY common, and often gives the edge :/
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-06-11 05:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mira Lynne
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Oh look, fresh from getting their asses handed to them by Eve University, Space Police has joined the fray.

I'm glad you could make it, really, and I know you were busy and all, but this conversation was played out days ago.


Oh look, another poster who raises valid points that you can't comprehend, so you Resort to insulting them Roll

Jones Bones wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
And bad pilots camping the same highsec gate in the same lowsec system for months at a time in double sebo'd Tech 3 cruisers with offgrid boosters and cloaked Rapier and Falcon alts nearby still equals, well, why don't you tell us Jones Bones, you're the expert. Big smile


LOL UMAD? No wait, UBAD!

He Mad. He Mad 'Cause he Bad. His 'Orbit 500, Shoot, Drool, Win' ship now requires skill to fly.

Suqq Madiq wrote:
Garbage

You seem upset.
Also, your name does not lend itself well to credibility.

Edit:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
fyp


I heard about this thing called a 'sandbox'. Appearantly you can fit ships in the way you want to, and not have to resort to cookie cutter fits that are proven to bring morons easy, undeserved kills. But you wouldnt know about that, would you?

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-06-11 06:57:40 UTC
The Merlin was always able to beat the Rifter, even if it didn't show on the Holey EFT

The only problem was that is needed 3 times as much skill points to get there.

Now it's just easier to fly effectively
Suqq Madiq
#74 - 2012-06-11 18:20:59 UTC
Mira Lynne wrote:
Pointless drivel.


Stop embarrassing yourself.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-06-11 18:56:33 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Stop embarrassing yourself.

Roll
Its true, im embarrased to say that im replying to you.
Is trying (Badly) to insult people all you do, or do you occasionally think?
Judging by your arguments you dont.

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#76 - 2012-06-11 19:50:16 UTC
I have this really fast, nimble frigate but I can't beat a Merlin when I sit in his blaster optimal. WHY CCP WHY?
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#77 - 2012-06-12 13:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliaksandre
Jones Bones wrote:
I have this really fast, nimble frigate but I can't beat a Merlin when I sit in his blaster optimal. WHY CCP WHY?


For whatever reason people in this thread, who don't fly frigates, are under the impression that rifter pilots used to orbit at 500 and win.

If that is how you fly a rifter, you are doing it wrong. The point is that now a Merlin with null will kill a rifter kiting at the edge of scram range (with barrage) and will kill a brawler rifter up close. I've tested this many time with corpies, and everytime the kiting rifter lost. The DPS from the Merlin and the - let me say this for the 10th time - INSIGNIFICANT speed advantage of the rifter all ensure that the rifter loses.

Keep at range, manual piloting, orbiting, w/e, you can try anything. You will always lose to a cookie merlin in a kiting rifter (when facing a competent merlin pilot of course).

The only rifter that wins is an arty rifter...which is very fun to fly, but severly limits what other ships you can take on while roaming. Do understand I really want the rifter to win, because I love flying it (plus v3 coming out!), and none of this is to be a **** or trolling. I'm giving you honest feedback from a corporation who specializes in frigate pvp, and who have extensively tested the frig changes.

Right now the speed advantage is about 70m/s (at work, not positive). Want to make the world right? Reduce the base speed of the Merlin back to what it was pre-buff. Then the rifter will have the speed advantage again and can effectively kite.

Edit: 400m plate rifter with snakes also wins haha
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#78 - 2012-06-12 13:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: BearJews
edit!@
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#79 - 2012-06-12 15:43:11 UTC
Aliaksandre wrote:
[quote=Jones Bones]The point is that now a Merlin with null will kill a rifter kiting at the edge of scram range (with barrage) and will kill a brawler rifter up close.


At the edge of scram range, blaster dps is pathetic at best. Scram range is 9km. Someone already said that dps at 7km is 80. AC200 have 30% more range with falloff, so you will be in your 80-85% dps range instead of the 45% and less dps the merlin is.

And 70m/s is anything but unsignificant, whatever the way you say it. It's the difference between kite and be kitted.

Anyway, if the merlin is your only problem with a rifter, then just avoid blaster merlin.
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#80 - 2012-06-12 17:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliaksandre
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
[quote=Jones Bones]The point is that now a Merlin with null will kill a rifter kiting at the edge of scram range (with barrage) and will kill a brawler rifter up close.


At the edge of scram range, blaster dps is pathetic at best. Scram range is 9km. Someone already said that dps at 7km is 80. AC200 have 30% more range with falloff, so you will be in your 80-85% dps range instead of the 45% and less dps the merlin is.

And 70m/s is anything but unsignificant, whatever the way you say it. It's the difference between kite and be kitted.

Anyway, if the merlin is your only problem with a rifter, then just avoid blaster merlin.


EFT is cute, but try getting out and actually flying these ships.

You try starting at 3500/4000km and working your way out to 9km going 50-70m/s faster than the other ship. Not to mention any good merlin pilot will have the AB OHed at the beginning, meaning that by the time you as a kiting rifter figure this out, you are in half armor. This also ignores merlins easily fitting T2 webs, and rifters (especially new pilots) often do not.

Want to play it safe and kite in OH scram range? Good luck not burning out your OH scram and OH AB, because you won't break a merlin's tank before you do. Rifter DPS with barrage at the edge of scram is pretty low, and you are hitting the merlin's higher resists.

Lets say you get lucky and start the engagement perfectly (lol) at edge of OH scram and are kiting comfortably, not letting the merlin get in good shots. You will burn your scram before you break his tank, or he will slowly catch up, or simply turn around and run with an OH AB. If he doesn't run, it is a close fight, but I have noticed that blasters tend to produce wrecking shots fairly often, and this still hurts into second falloff. And seriously, nothing ever works out this perfectly in an actual fight.

The merlin isn't the problem with the rifter. It is that the merlin can now do everything that the rifter could do, but better, making the rifter rather worthless to fly. It has a much larger engagement profile with its nearly double EHP and incredible DPS, allowing you to easily solo larger ships as well as some faction frigates and poor AFs.

The merlin has a clear role as a brawler. The rifter is much like the jag, in that is it very versatile but has no defined role, making it mediocre whichever way to choose to fly it.

Contrary to 85% of the posts on this forum, this isn't EFT theorycraft, this is tested...you know, by actually flying the ships.