EVE General Discussion

Want some quick clue on the proportion betwee high sec PVErs and low sec PVPers?

Login. Oper space map, go to the settings and select "average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes". Click random systems in high sec and in low sec (or just zoom out in order to have a global sight of the space).

Tell me sir, do you... do you by any chance PVP in lowsec?

New sig there...


He never claimed that "hi-sec mission runners are any more substantial than other groups" - but good straw-man (not!).
Considering that only 28.6% of all characters are found in Low/WH/Null ( Fan Fest Presentation ) it is reasonable to assume that *some* of the remaining 71.4% are actual mission runners. Hell, if even only 5% were dedicated, hardcore, never leave hi-sec mission runners, that is a pretty substantial number. Remember last summer when CCP saw a surge in cancellations? From what I've been able to discern (nothing formal was ever put out, but some numbers did leak) that was roughly 5% to 8% of the eve population - and you do remember how fast CCP did an about face?



Please, post some numbers showing that hisec mission running is *commonly performed by bots". I admit (up front) that botting does take place (in all sec bands), that is no reason to neglect any one area of space, unless it's to make it harder to bot. Which Hi-sec mission runners (hell, All mission runners!) would support! It would make their LP worth more. So leave bots out of it - bots have nothing to do with actual "players.




How do you know that's all they do? That is pure speculation on your part. Besides "hoarding" isk, isn't a bad thing for the economy, as it slows down the velocity of money in circulation...




A) Lots of new players look at the prices of deadspace, faction and officer items and can't imagine using them in combat. They learn - has nothing to do with being "scared" and everything to do with "wallet" & "experience".
B) When I was in a pirate corp, we loved mission runners. Good ransoms or good drops. Also, it's been my experience that just about everyone likes the occasional loot pinata - and fame and reputation? What about the guy who killed the Kestral hauling PLEX's in hi-sec. Besides, there is all kinds of different "reputation" ...
C) The reason many people avoid 0.0 is more than just blobs, quite often it's the reputations that exist out there to begin with.
D) Shifting lvl 4's to low-sec won't do jack-**** for bears, because most of them who are "bears" won't go "until they are ready". Not all bears remain bears. Telling players that "oh.. it's so much more fun!" would actually be inaccurate for quiet a few people who self-identify as bears, because what it enjoyable to one person's psyche is annoying or downright ugly negative to another. Many people (because of the way their minds are physically wired) actually get more negative reinforcement out of pvp engagements than they do positive.

It's a matter of how you are physically wired.

Exactly, also the first time you ever do some lvl4 in null sec (there are plenty of them, the most interesting) you look like this

The LP payout is absolutely insane and difficulty? -hehe what a joke if you know what you're doing: use D-scan yadyada, those systems are full of faction/officer fitted pirate BS/Tengus

Then you read: "nerf lvl4's, nerf high sec, bring lvl4's to low sec" hehe, lazy people are lazy

I think it's important to be careful about defining what is and what isn't real gameplay in Eve. The idea of the sandbox is that some people get to play afk, they get to be risk averse, they get to solo or small gang pvp or simply roll across the landscape in massive blobs. One of the great pillars of Eve is that you get to do as you like and you get to face the consequences. The idea behind forcing players into "pvp" situations defeats the sandbox. And this is different than the oft thrown around argument that you agree to pvp as soon as you undock. Yes, you can get shot at any time in Eve but if we force you to stand in front of a firing squad then it's not a sandbox.

The other important point is that the idea of moving level four mission runners to lowsec is really about kill mail padding. It's harvesting. We need to be real about that. At least in hisec it takes some form of skill to bait the mission runner into doing something stupid or simply ganking them. In losec it will be like fishing with dynamite.

Remember we're talking about 1mth old character.

With Eve's structure of learning it's clearly impossible to do all of this properly. And I'm not talking about the tutorials that are an introduction because in this case then you do all Eve content in less than a week.

Also, and don't get me wrong about this, unless you spend 50+ hours a week playing the dam thing, the newbbie can't do everything you've mentioned because he will lack skills and experience to achieve everything

Now we can disagree on how and why but any noob telling me he has done it all at his first month I'll stick a Troll tag on his nick.
Did you ever did single time life missions with your character? -do you even know those exist?
You might not show interest for some areas of Eve but that doesn't mean you've done it all just because as newbie you ran tutorials, did SOE, scanned some stuff in newbie system, mined some rocks with a civilian miner, build some crap with civilian BPC, hauled some crap a few systems around.

You have to jump some areas not interesting you to do something interesting you witch means you probably know those exist and tried pretty fast, doesn't mean you've done it all.

I can blitz whatever lvl4, clean most DED6 and get amused because those incoming for my ship just get warp scrambled/web and killed by rats because I know what I'm doing, but from this say I've done it all I will not, I've never ran "The Maze" properly and some other sites, never killed an officer and there are so many other content I've never done for whatever reason.
I can safely say I've tried a major part of the game content but from there say I've done it all that would be a lie.

Edit: however pvp talking I've done the most part of it including the biggest epic battles in Eve, doesn't makes me feel like a pro or better, just the feeling I've explored something unique not everyone in Eve can, did or will do.

And I'm horrible at pvp

+1

Genius idea. And it's not as if the concept is unknown to CCP - the pirate epic arcs are predicated on PvP fits doing PvE content. Just spread the idea a bit more to low-sec.

Everyone knows that anyone trying to "entice" PvE-ers to low-sec is just looking for easy targets, since a PvE-fitted ship (which has to be PvE fitted because of the nature of the sustained DPS in PvE missions) will 9/10 times hilariously DIAF to a PvP-fitted ship.

However, as a carebear, I do mission in low-sec sometimes - but if I do, my main concern so far as PvP goes is to try and avoid it. The only reason for doing lvl4s in low-sec atm is the adventure, the feeling of "cat and mouse", not the reward (which is good, but stupidly risky in low sec); i.e. I will certainly be in low-sec, but I will be trying to avoid a fight whenever possible (although my KB shows that isn't always possible )

However, the idea above would, I think, be more likely to entice players like me (who are sort of semi-adventurous PvE-ers who quite enjoy PvP even though they're crap at it). If I could do a PvE mission in a PvP-fitted ship, I'd probably do it more often, as at least then I'd have a fighting chance if it's only one or two guys after me.

It would also be a good "stepping stone" for PvE-ers to stick their toes in the PvP waters.

Yes, I like this idea a lot.

Bolded the part which has flown over the heads of anyone who thinks lvl4's should be moved to low-sec.

The reason for moving lvl4's to low-sec does not outweigh the reason for either losing players due to 'ragequit' or having absolutely zero impact due to lvl3's in high sec.

What it would do is lower the amount of isk entering the market, and increase the cost of certain ships and modules popular to lvl4 mission running.

Then, after that, instead of running lvl3's, they work out you can mine and make a significant amount of isk per hour versus lvl3's and then people will say 'move mining to low sec! - it's not fair that someone can run 4 accounts and have a mining empire in high sec!'

Then the 'we-are-for-and-against-the-game alliance' will use some arcane logic normally reserved for children, to have a permanent anti-mining fetish and somehow, it'll be considered okay and once again no one will get the point, and trying to explain it to anyone is the figurative equivalent of trying to teach a dog the French language.

Guys, Gals, let this mother fuckin' argument rest - 2005 was long time ago.

AK

Why? Why is there this desire for some people that every EVE player be pushed to low/null? What's wrong with having some players that enjoy high-sec? Just curious - because it baffles me that people feel the need to compel others to move to another part of space when they're apparently enjoying where they're at now.

Having diversity in the player base is good.

Exactly this. I know, that as soon as Lvl 4's are moved to low, and I jump into system to do some, to make some actual ******* money, some idiots will gank me.

And then I quit, because that's no fun.