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New to L4's -Need battleship advice

Author
Ranek Tes
Tigers in the Snows
#1 - 2012-06-07 08:57:40 UTC
Hello all,

I have finally grinded my standing for L4 missions wil Ministry of War and now I need to find a proper vessel to do said L4's in.

I have previously done a few in a Drake, but I am thinking I can do better in a Battleship.(?)

The funds aren't there for faction ships, though I can fly a Tengu, said funds are restricting me to standard battleships.The skills I traines are for Caldari/Amarr/Gallente ships - Main weapon skills are so far missiles and drones. Lasers are in the EVEmon queue - can / will be changed depending on advice :)

I have somewhat narrowed it down to:

- Raven
- Rokh(?)
- Dominix
- Hyperion(?)
- Apocalypse
- Abaddon

I am NOT a very experienced pilot, but I am hoping some of you have some good advice / fit / tactics / flight manuals you want to share. I got "good" skills in both shield and armor tanking.

Thanks in advance
Ranek
Layckhaie Kaele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-06-07 09:20:14 UTC
Ranek Tes wrote:
Hello all,

I have finally grinded my standing for L4 missions wil Ministry of War and now I need to find a proper vessel to do said L4's in.

I have previously done a few in a Drake, but I am thinking I can do better in a Battleship.(?)

The funds aren't there for faction ships, though I can fly a Tengu, said funds are restricting me to standard battleships.The skills I traines are for Caldari/Amarr/Gallente ships - Main weapon skills are so far missiles and drones. Lasers are in the EVEmon queue - can / will be changed depending on advice :)

I have somewhat narrowed it down to:

- Raven
- Rokh(?)
- Dominix
- Hyperion(?)
- Apocalypse
- Abaddon

I am NOT a very experienced pilot, but I am hoping some of you have some good advice / fit / tactics / flight manuals you want to share. I got "good" skills in both shield and armor tanking.

Thanks in advance
Ranek


It really depends on your skills. You say you don't have laser skills trained so I would recommend you don't use Amarr battleships (until you train them). If you have good drone skills (T2 sentries) then a Dominix is a very decent ship. If you can't use T2 sentries then I would just go for the Raven. It's actually a pretty decent L4 ship and quite skill forgiving (compared to your other choices).

Solo WH PVP | http://eve-eternity.blogspot.com/

Ranek Tes
Tigers in the Snows
#3 - 2012-06-07 09:29:33 UTC
Layckhaie Kaele wrote:


It really depends on your skills. You say you don't have laser skills trained so I would recommend you don't use Amarr battleships (until you train them). If you have good drone skills (T2 sentries) then a Dominix is a very decent ship. If you can't use T2 sentries then I would just go for the Raven. It's actually a pretty decent L4 ship and quite skill forgiving (compared to your other choices).


Thanks.

No T2 Sentries right now, so i guess the best option atm will be the Raven.

Will Amarr ships be "better" when I get laser skills trained?

And Is the Abaddon worth the extra millions on the pricetag, compared to the Apoc?
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-07 10:48:39 UTC
This depends on what you want to do in the long run. Each of those ships is fairly easy to get into, but to trully get everything out of them, you'll need to specialize down the line, taking considerable amount of time. For instance, if you get a Raven, you get the option of proceeding down to Navy Raven or Golem. However, you'll have to focus on missile skills, severely limiting your other options. For one such as me, who loves missiles, that's not an issue, but for you, it might be. On the other hand, if you get better gun skills, you might end up with Machariel eventually. Or perhaps you'll want to explore in a Tengu, meaning anything that affects it would be a better choice.

All in all, I'd say you need to decide what you want to do, say, 6 months from now. Set that and the best choice will present itself.
Ranek Tes
Tigers in the Snows
#5 - 2012-06-07 12:01:47 UTC
This could end up in a Golem then, as the sexyness of missiles have multiplied by an awesome amount since patch :D
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#6 - 2012-06-07 12:29:54 UTC
Ranek Tes wrote:
...Ministry of War...


--->

Ranek Tes wrote:

- Apocalypse
- Abaddon


Because you are running in Amarr space then and will mainly get Sansha/Blood Raider missions. So the main damage type you have to tank is EM/Thermal (easier with armor tank) and the main damage type you have to apply is EM (fine with lasers).

If you are not experienced - as you say - your first goal will be be to tank the missions and the two mentioned ships are fine for this in Amarr regions. My opinion...
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-06-07 12:35:58 UTC
cruise raven is a good start. look into an XL-booster/cap booster fit. as soon as your laser skills and wallet are up to snuff, switch to the nightmare for 4digit dps sexytime.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2012-06-07 13:58:55 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
cruise raven is a good start. look into an XL-booster/cap booster fit. as soon as your laser skills and wallet are up to snuff, switch to the nightmare for 4digit dps sexytime.


I'd probably suggest this. Amarr BSs do a great job on BR/Sansha missions but the mix I tend to get in Amarr space has a generous sprinkling of Guristas missions where Amarr BSs really struggle. It's not such a problem if your skills are up to snuff but they can be a pain otherwise. And if you're just starting out you probably don't want to decline those missions.

As for which Amarr BS would work, the Apoc is considerably more forgiving at lower skills than the Abaddon. In fact, the Abaddon really requires a nearly all-5 skill set, at which point the Nightmare or Paladin are already better options.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-07 17:08:34 UTC
Nightmare's a pain in the ass against smalls. raven would be my personal choice, whack a single EM, single therm, two invulns, then XL boost and boost amp. Good to go.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#10 - 2012-06-07 17:32:45 UTC
Given you fly the Drake, you have some missile skills. Add to that, you don't know where you'll be missioning months or years from now. The ability to change damage types makes the Raven (and later the CNR) is one of the better choices. However, it is truly a mission ship and it as well as its cruise missiles aren't a good jumping point to PVP should you decide on that one day.
The Tengu is not a BS and is not optimal against Sansha/Bloods in Amarr space, but is on par and in many situations superior to the CNR. You can stay with heavy missiles and ignore cruises that way, and it is versitile for other uses should you try other areas of Eve.
I use and enjoy both.
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#11 - 2012-06-07 19:13:35 UTC
Raven and Dominix have damage type selectability. Even in Amarr space, unless you're picky you will wind up faced with the occasional Guristas or Angel mission and 3h59m left on the agent clock.

Raven struggles against EM heavy NPCs, Dominix has an easier time with it. Ishtar is immune to guristas, Dominix tank can struggle, Raven has the FoF option.

I've run l4s in Amarr space using Dominix, Ishtar, Raven, CNR and Tengu. The Dominix will get the job done well if speed isn't a concern. A pulse-tanked Raven will do reasonably well but can be tricky to manage if you're inexperienced (or in the wrong place when a Blockade wave spawns). Tengu does well enough though the CNR is better for several missions IMO, and if a Tengu gets within Blood neut range its cap has a tendency to disappear.

If you're sticking to Sansha/Blood/Rogue Drone missions then the Amarrian laser boats are viable, though I have no flight experience to relate.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2012-06-08 00:40:45 UTC
apoc is a super duper low sp ship, should be able to pretty easily perma run one rep and have a second to pulse. or you can swap the TC for another cap recharger and have perma run on everything, can also drop a heatsink for another hardener if really needed. also swap for t2 where you can.

and yes you will get the occasional angels extra, but most angels come up close so you can use higher damage ammo most of the time. it might take you a bit more time, but you will still get through it. for a guristas version of The Assault I'd say swap to beams and go for the blitz, my nightmare does it in about 5 mins.

if you don't find yourself pulsing the 2nd rep ever drop it and add a heat sink. and at that point I'd probably drop a cap recharger for another tracking comp, or think about switching to an abaddon for more dps.

[Apocalypse, nub pve]
Prototype Armor EM Hardener I
Prototype Armor EM Hardener I
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead I x5
Hobgoblin I x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

drdxie
#13 - 2012-06-08 01:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: drdxie
Apoc will be your best choice. Use beams as suggested above. Split them into smaller groupings and target and pop frigs first, when the get to close, set your T2 lights to work. Even with low skills the lasers will outperform a cruise boat against em weak npc's.

EDIT, I used a sensor booster on my first fit as apposed to the tracking computer above, you want to be able to target and kill as many frigs before they get close.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-06-08 02:48:34 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Nightmare's a pain in the ass against smalls. raven would be my personal choice, whack a single EM, single therm, two invulns, then XL boost and boost amp. Good to go.



How is the nightmare worse vs small vessels then raven ? Both deal with them using drones ... the only difference is that nightmare can instapop them on their approach.

How is that worse then raven ... dont tell me your using cruise missiles to grind down elite frigs ?
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2012-06-08 05:30:29 UTC
Yeah all gun boats are better than missile boats at killing frigs because you can instapop them on the approach but cruise missiles are basically useless against frigs.
Layckhaie Kaele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-06-08 12:59:33 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Nightmare's a pain in the ass against smalls.


NM has excellent tracking, combine that with tracking enhancer and computer (and implant) and you can hit frigates as close as 20-16km and cruisers orbiting you at 10-8km even with tachyons.

When I was doing L4s I would rarely need to deploy my light drones. Once in a while a lucky frigate would close enough so I couldn't track in any more - but 95% of the time you can insta-pop while they are still far, far away.

Solo WH PVP | http://eve-eternity.blogspot.com/

Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-09 05:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind
Ranek Tes wrote:
, though I can fly a Tengu,


You just answered your own question.

At current prices a tengu isn't that much more expensive than a decent non-faction BS. A basic tech 2 fit is fine for a tengu to do pretty much any L4 (just plug that EM hole).

If you really want a BS look into an apoc, they steamroll missions in amarr space nicely
William Pemer
TBDB
#18 - 2012-06-09 08:30:28 UTC
Tengu is not on par price wise with a Raven to someone that is new to level 4 missions. Get a Raven, and work up the money and skills to use the Tengu (not just the skills to step into the cockpit), it will be the quickest way to build a real level 4 mission killer, and then use the money you make with the Tengu for things like pirate faction ships etc...

Happy Hunting
Constable Chang
#19 - 2012-06-09 11:03:03 UTC
I think running level 4's you need at least two different types of ship to cover different types of mission. Also a shuttle.

For missions where most of the targets are cruiser or larger, a cruise missile Raven is a good choice. Rigor rigs, XL shield booster etc. There are lots of loadouts on battleclinic to give you ideas eg:

Starter lvl4 Raven

However on, for example, drone missions the Raven isn't so great. Lots of small targets. On these kinds of mission I far prefer a gunboat; the Maelstrom is ideal. With autocannons it chews up drones very fast. Theres a nice loadout on Battleclinic which I based mine on:

Baby Varg

Some people advise to fit meta 4 1200mm artillery if you can't use t2 autocannons, but I use meta 4 autocannons and clean up missions just fine.

These two ships have a great advantage; virtually all of your tanking modules can be used on either.

You need a few alternative fittings for these ships; a high tank loadout, a loadout with an afterburner, loadouts with different resists for different rats. Etc. Its good if you can save these loadouts, make sure all the modules for them are in your hangar and you can swap between them very fast; you want a good turnaround time. Spending 5 minutes searching for modules and deciding what to fit is 5 minutes spent not running a mission.

Its also a good idea to have a shuttle handy... for Soft Drink Wars. No need to engage anything, just grab the Quafe and run. There are a few other missions best run in a shuttle too.

Domyn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-09 13:59:27 UTC
Do you have tech 2 missile skills? if you dont, the dominix might very well be your best option atm. With the recent addition of drone damage mods they can deal a significant amount of damage focusing only on drones. plus they are easyer to tank against the sansha and bloodraiders youll encounter, and you have no problems with jamming guristas. youll mostly encounter sansha and guristas in amarr space as you probably noticed yourself already.

Also i wholeheartedly agree with the above advice, using multiple ships for missions depending on what you get is quite a good idea. Personally i use a gallente ship against guristas, minmatar against mercs, angels and rogue drones, and an amarr ship vs. sansha / bloodraiders
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