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New dev blog: The Economy “Burns“ (Price Indices – May 2012)

First post
Author
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#21 - 2012-06-09 01:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
OK CCP ReCURVE what where the numbers for the ISK Faucets/sinks broken down for May? I'm curious if the Drone bounties outpaced the Incursion nerf payouts & if WH 'blue loots' increased with pilots scuttering around for new sources of income.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-09 03:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
So in short, you replaced a mineral faucet with an ISK faucet just before a major player event which suppressed the remaining source of minerals, which quite obviously led to both price inflation and monetary devaluation. Individual player real income went down just as real prices were going through the roof.

But good to know that you're keeping an eye on the overall EVE economy. Just hope we're not going to run into full-on stagflation.

I'd definitely be interested in a breakdown of ISK inflows/outflows, especially broken down by activity and region. I'd be very surprised if the nerf to incursions wasn't more than offset by the addition of rogue drone bounties.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-09 03:09:38 UTC
Golly, the CCP documented single digit price increases, etc. are so quaint. Crazy how the gear that I use, need and for which I trained has gone up in price by 50 - 500% over the past 6 - 12 months.

In my small world, costs have skyrocketed with little-to-no reciprocation in earnings potential. What a great business opportunity for CCP to sell me GTCs so that I can cash them in for ISK, you say?

"Not on your life," as Arnie once said.

I used to buy GTCs with disposable RL income as a way to ISK up. No way that's going to happen with CCP's recent Inventory ****-up and egotistical treatment of their customers. Hilmar's 'humility blog' from last Fall falls completely flat with how CCP released Inferno.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#24 - 2012-06-09 05:33:57 UTC
So that's how my mineral investment dropped lol

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

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Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#25 - 2012-06-09 09:59:29 UTC
Aryth wrote:
When some people notice a fire, their instinctive reaction is to reach for a bucket of fuel. Many of those people play EVE.

and most of them are Goons


not likely. why would people that set fire go for the buckets?
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#26 - 2012-06-09 10:14:06 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Just hope we're not going to run into full-on stagflation.

Why would that be a bad thing for Eve? Please answer taking into account that this is a pretend spaceship game, and unlike in the real world, nobody goes hungry or loses their job when it occurs.
BleedingAngl
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-06-09 16:04:35 UTC
Shobon Welp wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Just hope we're not going to run into full-on stagflation.

Why would that be a bad thing for Eve? Please answer taking into account that this is a pretend spaceship game, and unlike in the real world, nobody goes hungry or loses their job when it occurs.


apart from people at ccp loose their job

.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-09 16:22:45 UTC
BleedingAngl wrote:
Shobon Welp wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Just hope we're not going to run into full-on stagflation.

Why would that be a bad thing for Eve? Please answer taking into account that this is a pretend spaceship game, and unlike in the real world, nobody goes hungry or loses their job when it occurs.


apart from people at ccp loose their job
Is that because subscriptions are either stagnant or decrease? I am not following your line of thinking, tbh.

If the in-game economy suffers severe stagflation and RL subscription rates start to suffer, then are there not tools or design tweaks that CCP could use to massage the in-game economy into better health?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-06-09 16:37:49 UTC
" It should prove interesting to watch it recover over the next 2 to 3 months. "

Then we get another fuel bucket!!! Moon minerals on planetary belts and Ice Comets roaming every system with good industrial index???

I can't wait for that!!!! Lol
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#30 - 2012-06-09 18:55:07 UTC
BleedingAngl wrote:
Shobon Welp wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Just hope we're not going to run into full-on stagflation.

Why would that be a bad thing for Eve? Please answer taking into account that this is a pretend spaceship game, and unlike in the real world, nobody goes hungry or loses their job when it occurs.


apart from people at ccp loose their job


Why does stagflation in a virtual spaceship economy cause CCP employees to lose their jobs in real life? Does CCP pay its developers in asteroid minerals now?
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-06-09 19:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
because cancelled subs don't usually return

recruiting new subs to a game, with a well documented history of misconduct by the people who make it as well as indifferent attitude to the displeasure their ineptness cause isn't as easy as u imagine.

think

incursion nerf
walking in stations
unified inventory
etc, etc...

not to mention its northern hemisphere summertime and competion from other games

just wait till you can hear the sound of all the neut RR alts being biomassed cos of upcoming crimewatch changes

they may try to tell you that its all fixed in 2-3 months but chances are its 2-3 years before they even realized what happened, let alone figure out any way to "fix" it and implement fix

We are our own worst enemy.

Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#32 - 2012-06-09 21:53:38 UTC
Trollin wrote:
because cancelled subs don't usually return

recruiting new subs to a game, with a well documented history of misconduct by the people who make it as well as indifferent attitude to the displeasure their ineptness cause isn't as easy as u imagine.

think

incursion nerf
walking in stations
unified inventory
etc, etc...

not to mention its northern hemisphere summertime and competion from other games

just wait till you can hear the sound of all the neut RR alts being biomassed cos of upcoming crimewatch changes

they may try to tell you that its all fixed in 2-3 months but chances are its 2-3 years before they even realized what happened, let alone figure out any way to "fix" it and implement fix


You mean the indifferent attitude towards Unified Inventory that has released how many quick patches in the two weeks since release?

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-06-09 22:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
I wrote a response, but the forum ate it. So consider this a **** You to the web team. Wasn't this sort of thing fixed months ago on these forums (and has been a non-issue on every other decent forumfor years)? Re-post forthcoming.
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-09 23:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Please refer to Wikipedia or any basic Economics text if you do not understand what stagflation is, or if you don't understand basic economic concepts. It is not my job to correct that sort of ignorance.

Stagflation occurs where there is high inflation, low or even negative economic growth, and high unemployment.

As the dev blog quite clearly shows, we've been experiencinng a period of high inflation, driven primarily by the removal of drone alloys, a major source of minerals.

Economic growth, at its most basic and meaningful, is an increase in real individual income. Nominal individual income in EVE has remained static or been reduced for most players. Nominal income from bounties and missions has not changed in years; incursion nominal income has been nerfed; trader and manufacturer margins have gone down slightly due to an increase in the transaction tax. Only the income of miners and Technetium moon holders has increased, and mining has its own problems, which I will not discuss here.

So nominal prices have increased across the board while nominal individual income has remained static or has gone down. Real player income has gone down, aside from a few special cases. In more simple terms, if it took an hour of anomaly running to buy a Drake this time last year, it now might take two hours, so it takes more grinding to get the reward (whether it is PvP or a new shiny module or what have you).

The danger is that we may hit a point where the tedium of the grind exceeds the rewards. And ISK-making in EVE is actrociously boring; EVE is perhaps the only game where players regularly watch movies or do other things during PvE. At that point player activity may decline. For a game like EVE, where players generate most of the game content, a decline in player activity is very dangerous, for obviious reasons. That would be analogous to the "high unemployment" part of stagflation, if we really want to be particular about fulfilling all the elements of that definition.

I am not saying that we are at that point. CCP is watching the game economy, and they should have all the tools necessary to nudge the EVE economy if necessary. We know that the game needs more ISK sinks, but it also probably needs more sources of moon goo and of basic minerals.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#35 - 2012-06-10 01:00:36 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
As the dev blog quite clearly shows, we've been experiencinng a period of high inflation, driven primarily by the removal of drone alloys, a major source of minerals.

And the botters who were reaping the alloys...

Just sayin'...

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#36 - 2012-06-10 01:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Bring back the QEN! What ya scared of?
Also shouldn' graph #3 included the amount of ore processed from alloyes so we get a better picture of the amount of ore in the system?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-06-10 03:49:37 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Bring back the QEN! What ya scared of?
Also shouldn' graph #3 included the amount of ore processed from alloyes so we get a better picture of the amount of ore in the system?
CCP has made the choice to reduce the marketing "intelligence" available about their EVE intellectual property for one reason or another. Purely speculative on my part, but I believe that their formerly good subscription increases have leveled off to a point where investors, potential clients and other parties of value might raise an eyebrow and consider CCP to be a has-been business opportunity. After all, everybody wants to be associated with a rising star, but not so much with the skinny guy treading water with the sharks circling.

Personally, I miss the statistics having to do with ships, manufacturing, statistics on **** blown (and where), etc. Again, I will speculate that this data analysis may provide too much information on either business or game design weaknesses putting CCP at a business-related disadvantage, somehow.

If I put on my tin foil hat and conspiracy cape, I'd speculate that CCP had much to keep on the down low from current and future business partners.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#38 - 2012-06-10 08:30:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shobon Welp
Quote:
The danger is that we may hit a point where the tedium of the grind exceeds the rewards.

On the other hand, the easier it is to make money the less rewarding it becomes to do so. If everyone is stupendously rich and has a deadspace tengu and a supercap alt, where's the excitement and sense of achievement in joining that not-so-exclusive club yourself? Decreasing the rewards may actually result in players setting more modest goals for themselves, or making their goals to be something other than grinding isk for months to spend on Flashy Hull X, perhaps they'll make their goal 'learn how to probe' or 'get good at PvP'. The ship balancing efforts that have begun will go a long way to fixing this issue if they succeed in making viable roles for less expensive T1 ships and we don't have to spend 6 months of boredom on getting into T2 fitted battleships or whatever the next flavour of the month is.

Quote:
And ISK-making in EVE is actrociously boring; EVE is perhaps the only game where players regularly watch movies or do other things during PvE. At that point player activity may decline. For a game like EVE, where players generate most of the game content, a decline in player activity is very dangerous, for obviious reasons.

Everybody knows that PvE in Eve is a terrible boring grind and has been saying it for years. Even CCP are now looking into ways to make mining and industrial activities both more rewarding and more interesting (and the drone alloy removal was an important first step on this path). The fact that grinding is boring and you have to grind to get into a lot of the viable hulls isn't directly relevant to any sense of impending economic crisis since it was just as true 6 months and 2 years and 5 years ago as now.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-06-10 15:30:51 UTC
After reading the blog, I have one question -

Where is the fun factor in the game?

Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#40 - 2012-06-10 17:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Haifisch Zahne
REMOVED TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP").