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Why some of us don't PVP as much as we'd like to, and what can be done to fix that.
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Eternal Error
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-06-08 17:16:05 UTC
I'm tired of posting legitimate replies to these terrible threads, so I'm just going to say no.

Implants provide choices, risk, etc. Stop whining.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#82 - 2012-06-08 17:19:14 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Implants are like ships, don't use what you can't afford to lose.


Also, stop min/maxing your training. If you want to do PVP, then do it. Stop fretting about having to wait 6 more hours to get that skill that takes 26 days to train anyway.

If I plug in a slave set, I give up learning speed in exchange for a significant armor buff. I use +4 implants most of the time because +5s are more than I care to pay.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-06-08 20:32:50 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Implants are like ships, don't use what you can't afford to lose.


Also, stop min/maxing your training. If you want to do PVP, then do it. Stop fretting about having to wait 6 more hours to get that skill that takes 26 days to train anyway.

If I plug in a slave set, I give up learning speed in exchange for a significant armor buff. I use +4 implants most of the time because +5s are more than I care to pay.


Yeah man, but training stuff fast is very important...

Why do I seem to be the only guy that thinks that?
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
Hashashin Cartel
#84 - 2012-06-08 20:37:52 UTC
Nothing needs to be changed expect your fear of losing something. Everything you lose can be gained back.

HTFU
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#85 - 2012-06-08 20:41:27 UTC
Having to pay for pods is annoying and destroying pods are not that great. I'm fine with that part of your argument. The rest is a bit meh!

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-06-08 20:46:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
It's perfectly fine for parasite care bears to stay in their +4 and +5 clones for years on end, and never lose them, and train at full speed, while I get penalized for PVPing.

So in reality your whole point is just to snivel about other players who don't play like you do?

Parasites?

You're a real piece of garbage d00d...
Syndrea Caedrion
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-06-08 20:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Syndrea Caedrion
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.


Oh, so training my skills at a decent speed is something I don't have to utilize right?

It's perfectly fine for parasite care bears to stay in their +4 and +5 clones for years on end, and never lose them, and train at full speed, while I get penalized for PVPing.

Your logic, there is none.


I agree, there is no logic in what you said. If you cannot accept the consequences of pvp in +4/5 implants, then that is really on you, not CCP. It's your choice, one of the few true choices anyone has left in this game. Nobody else is responsible for holding your hand exclusively and making the game easier for you.

Oh, and your snarky little comment about hisec players is invalid because they don't get to pvp AND not worry about their implants. They engage in low risk behavior, and thus, are at low risk.

Eve has (or is supposed to have) consequences. Dodge them or accept them. But don't expect CCP to give you a carseat so you can be safer.

Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Yeah man, but training stuff fast is very important...

Why do I seem to be the only guy that thinks that?


No, you are the only guy who thinks that you should be able to train stuff fast with little to no risk. There is a difference.

They somehow managed to get every freak and creep in the universe in this one game, and then somehow managed to let them take it over, and then they somehow managed to stick us right smack in the middle.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-06-08 20:57:28 UTC
Cant afford implants clones or ships. You lose SP f your clone is out of date you lose training time for a day, you lose 200 mill worth of ship and must spend 2 weeks recovering it because the only PvE ship you can use is a drake.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-06-08 20:59:37 UTC
Told you guys in the other thread that it was just a crappy attempt at a post to say that they shouldn't have to worry about losing implants when they pvp.


What I think CCP should do.

Remove the OP's implants so he doesn't have to worry about losing them. Problem solved.

Everytime I undock to move stuff I risk losing my implants, and I'm not even actively looking for PvP. If you can't afford it then don't fly it, doesn't only pertain to your ship. Stop being a little ***** about losing your implants.
Takamori Maruyama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-06-08 21:05:58 UTC
Add some uncharted systems that have the same rules of Wormholes.
Instead of requiring tons of astrometrics , probe skills and w/e
Just require the player to know how to dscan, being a step stone for WH later.

Loud and clear...
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#91 - 2012-06-08 21:10:04 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Yeah man, but training stuff fast is very important...

Why do I seem to be the only guy that thinks that?


You aren't. I spend most of my time with +4s in my head. It's just that I'm willing to risk those implants.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-06-08 21:46:43 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Told you guys in the other thread that it was just a crappy attempt at a post to say that they shouldn't have to worry about losing implants when they pvp.


What I think CCP should do.

Remove the OP's implants so he doesn't have to worry about losing them. Problem solved.

Everytime I undock to move stuff I risk losing my implants, and I'm not even actively looking for PvP. If you can't afford it then don't fly it, doesn't only pertain to your ship. Stop being a little ***** about losing your implants.


Oh, I am sorry mister Goon, but my losses don't get covered by the swarm, like yours do...

Sorry if I am a little more risk averse.

That's what always happens in Eve, the big alliance super stinking rich guys only like **** that benefits them, and talk against anything that benefits the little guy with less money.
Gonada
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#93 - 2012-06-08 21:53:08 UTC
I used to pvp, loved it, hopefully will again one day, but least my situation is that as someone who is married, kids, I dont have the huge time allotments required for most pvp centric corps anymore.

Sucks but there it is, and since the eve population is more adultish, a fair portion of the population I'd say is in the same boat as me.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-06-08 22:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
I never really cared about losing ships, i do however agree to the OP to some extent.

Losing isk or assets is one thing and while undocking ships, no matter how safe, you never really are. It's the choice we make and no matter how we look at it, the loss is replaceable. Time in the other hand, is not. Yes i can always replug new implants every time i got blown up, but what happen if i don't or when i use +5s or when i jumped into an empty clone.

Eve is imho one of the heaviest time invested and community oriented MMO i've played so far. I don't know about other players but, for me, losing 1-2 days of skill training is far worse than losing a battleship in battle.

I support the idea because in somewhat reason it may provide less reason for (some) people to stay docked or be safe while training their skills instead of go out and shoot stuff.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-06-08 22:34:28 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I don't mind losing an expensive ship, but losing an expensive clone and LOSING SKILL POINTS AS A RESULT, pisses me off.

Why?

Because SP, unlike ISK, can't be recovered, your character will be permanently ******** once you start losing SP.

This is especially bad on my main, who is missing 60 million SP because I had to quit Eve for a total of 2 years in increments, because RL was all over the place for a while.

So not only is my main missing a **** TON of SP, but now I have to worry about losing SP when I PVP, because in 0.0, pod death is almost unavoidable.

This causes me to not even feel like PVPing at all, for fear that i will lose even more SP.

I REPEAT.

ISK is NOT a problem, SP is, and removing attribute clones and just giving everyone +5 or just removing attributes altogether, would FIX that fear.

Also, the main reason people quit this game is because they are not having fun, because they are spending hours upon hours they would spend on having fun recovering their losses instead, SP loss and learning implant loss is a major contributor to this.

If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.

Also, not all of us buy PLEX.


do you actually play this game?


I don't think so, by the sounds of it he's playing Progress Quest. It's not the implants stopping you from doing pvp, it's you, plain and simple. Your own compulsion to maintain the top rate of training is hampering your ability to just ditch the implants for a while and go shoot and be shot. Some people believe that skill points are everything in this game, they'd be surprised to learn that player experience counts for more.


Yeah, pretty much, I guess.

But yeah, if we didn't have those damn implants or the whole attribute system for that matter, I wouldn't have to worry about that.

It's totally keeping me from wanting to properly PVP, I am ISK broke enough as it is, and unlike some people I don't agree with buying plex for isk, because then what is the point of playing the game? Might as well play on the test server.


So the problem isn't the implants, it's your inability to make ISK to support PvP, and the only way you don't make isk is by being lazy.

If you can't be bothered to do stuff that will make you the money to afford to do other stuff, then don't do those stuffs, and that includes pvp.

Seriously man, if what you want is "casual" pvp then you're in the wrong ******* game guy.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-06-08 22:40:06 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:


Eve is imho one of the heaviest time invested and community oriented MMO i've played so far. I don't know about other players but, for me, losing 1-2 days of skill training is far worse than losing a battleship in battle.

I support the idea because in somewhat reason it may provide less reason for (some) people to stay docked or be safe while training their skills instead of go out and shoot stuff.


How are you people losing 1-2 days of skill traing? How are any of you losing any amount of time worth of skill training?

The only way I know how to lose SP is to not have a proper clone ready and waiting for you.

Implants DO NOT represent any amount of time lost if you die. They only represent the potential of time gained if you don't lose them. If you have them in, and you want to pvp, it's the exact same thing as your ship. If you don't want to lose them, don't use them. Get cheaper implants.

Those few hours you GAIN with implants are a LUXURY. They aren't required nor do they give you any real advantage.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-06-08 22:44:52 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Told you guys in the other thread that it was just a crappy attempt at a post to say that they shouldn't have to worry about losing implants when they pvp.


What I think CCP should do.

Remove the OP's implants so he doesn't have to worry about losing them. Problem solved.

Everytime I undock to move stuff I risk losing my implants, and I'm not even actively looking for PvP. If you can't afford it then don't fly it, doesn't only pertain to your ship. Stop being a little ***** about losing your implants.


Oh, I am sorry mister Goon, but my losses don't get covered by the swarm, like yours do...

Sorry if I am a little more risk averse.

That's what always happens in Eve, the big alliance super stinking rich guys only like **** that benefits them, and talk against anything that benefits the little guy with less money.


I've never asked goons to replace anything I've lost. NEVER once. Just beausse they have a reimbursement policy doesn't mean we all use it.

Which is why I don't plug +5 implants into my skull. I have 3s, because I can replace them without it actually hurting my wallet.


Know what I don't do? I don't come to the forums and ask CCP to change core game mechanics so that I can do casual pvp with minimum risk because I don't want to lose something.
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#98 - 2012-06-08 22:53:58 UTC
****, I've self destructed +5's before. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-06-08 22:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:


Eve is imho one of the heaviest time invested and community oriented MMO i've played so far. I don't know about other players but, for me, losing 1-2 days of skill training is far worse than losing a battleship in battle.

I support the idea because in somewhat reason it may provide less reason for (some) people to stay docked or be safe while training their skills instead of go out and shoot stuff.


How are you people losing 1-2 days of skill traing? How are any of you losing any amount of time worth of skill training?

The only way I know how to lose SP is to not have a proper clone ready and waiting for you.

Implants DO NOT represent any amount of time lost if you die. They only represent the potential of time gained if you don't lose them. If you have them in, and you want to pvp, it's the exact same thing as your ship. If you don't want to lose them, don't use them. Get cheaper implants.

Those few hours you GAIN with implants are a LUXURY. They aren't required nor do they give you any real advantage.

Basically that two.

It's a matter of perspective, the amount of time 'gained' (or the luxury as you say it) when we fit higher grade of implants in comparison to when we don't, say, no attribute implants or by using +3s for example, are a loss.

I know some (or maybe alot of) people who stay docked or do somewhat (or relatively) less risky stuff for the sole reason of keeping their SP/h high and waited days til they then jumped to a lesser implanted clone to pvp, then jumps back to train, when they could, say, if the attribute implants weren't there in the first place, may have not stayed safe and do more pvp. These are even more common among +5 users.

It's like this, i'm going to bet that if in a hypothetical scenario, implants doesn't exist, but you lose isk everytime you die and that isk loss scales by your total sp, people, or at least i, would probably care far less when being podded than it is now.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-06-08 23:01:24 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:

Basically that two.

It's a matter of perspective, the amount of time 'gained' (or the luxury as you say it) when we fit higher grade of implants in comparison to when we don't, say, no attribute implants or by using +3s for example, are a loss.

I know some (or maybe alot of) people who stay docked or do somewhat (or relatively) less risky stuff for the sole reason of keeping their SP/h high and waited days til they then jumped to a lesser implanted clone to pvp, then jumps back to train, when they could, say, if the attribute implants weren't there in the first place, may have not stayed safe and do more pvp. These are even more common among +5 users.


That's understandable. I just wouldn't want to see those people coming to the forums asking CCP to make it so that they can do more "casual" pvp without having to worry about what implants they use.

I would also think that that combat clone has implants for combat and not skill training.