Market Discussions

The 3rd Invuln ads 13k EHP, costing the attacker an extra Nado in 1shot ganks. (>.7)

The booster does rep 1.1k EHP/s so vs 2 shot ganks it's equivalent, and vs 3 shot crews (.5 w/ implants) it's better.

Remember, time to CONCORD isn't relevant for Alpha ganks, it's time between volleys.

An LSE II adds 18k EHP, so it's better than both.

Just realized the above is with Extenders (which you should use if you're running high value cargo rather than using it as a mini-freighter and actually using the cargohold)

Without Extenders (No Expanders either, so the EHP totals are off, but not the differences):
Booster: 244 EHP + 13k EHP over the 13s between volleys, total 244k-257k-270k EHP
LSEII: 255k EHP
Invuln: 252k EHP

Since 3 Volley ganks are rare, for the most part, the additional EHP in higher sec areas will be better for you than the 2k extra EHP in 2 Volley areas.

EDIT: Didn't remember to OH the hardeners (did OH the booster) in these numbers, so I'm not sure what that does to everything.


[Orca, Tank Haul]

Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II

EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II <> Large Shield Extender II <> X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

mhh guess my math is off than, some Orca haulers also fit a AB, so u can half your warp off time. Will redo my math and see where the problem is, guess my boost to EHP conversion is wrong since Pyfa wont show the boosted amount as more EHP.

OH brings a Nado's 1400s down to 13.7s. That's enough to guarantee a second shot in .6 and under.

But yeah, Buffer's usually better (and don't turn on your hardeners automatically; pre-heat them and only cycle them as they start locking you.)

http://blog.beyondreality.se/TTK-CONCORD

TBQFH, you could fill the Corp Hangars with Titan BPOs, not put a single mod on the thing, name the thing "Full of Titan BPOs," and AP all around HS and be perfectly safe. So my Orca fit is thus:

Only 180k EHP (less with my alt's lack of skills), but warps fast when I'm active.

[Orca, Hisec Hauling]

Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I

Here's an excellent comparison of orca/freighter. Its from last summer, so adjust prices accordingly, but the ratios should be about the same.

First, it doesn't matter how much EHP you have, gankers can still alpha you. Rough numbers = 5 tornadoes does 110k unmodified damage in two cycles, 60k in 1 cycle, which means that assuming 1 cycle, 10 - 12 for freighter gank, 20 - 28 for an orca, which is not a lot of ships). It's worth mentioning, having been a part of both freighter and orca ganks, that when gankers see an orca moving down the pipe to/from hubs, they're not fooled. They know you have something valuable that you want to hide. You shouldn't assume they won't pop you because the drop won't be good. Sometimes its enough to deprive people of something you can't have.

Second, the total m3 of the corp bay is 10k. If everything you want to haul will fit in there, you'd be better off in a cloaky hauler. It's cheaper, easier to train for, and, even better than the bays of an orca, it can't be locked, never mind scanned or popped. It also works in losec/nosec, a substanially more difficult endeavor for an Orca. The ship bay is only useful for assembled ships, max 20 frigs, so unless you're hauling collectible ships or fitted T3s (max 4), the value of the ships isn't significant enough to encourage a gank in the first place (if you're moving expensive mods by fitting those ships, they'll still fit in a cloaky hauler). Also, the cloaky hauler is orders of magnitude faster.

Third, if you want something unscannable, double wrap a courier package (20k in fees). If you're hold is filled with other stuff, it's nearly impossible for someone to determine whether you've got a double wrap at all.

Finally, don't forget that the training times in that article don't account for modules or advanced nav skills; that is just to sit in one and jump gates. Also don't forget that if you're planning to use it for it's intended purpose, you cannot simultaneously haul and vice versa. Ultimately, your hauling is capped by the Orca's total m3. If you're trading in something large volume (battleships), bulky in useful quantities (minerals), or bulky in quantities necessary to make the trip worth it (t1/t2 modules, T1 frigs, etc), you're going to end up in a freighter anyway. As mentioned in the original article, no haulers are in the orca training plan. If you need haulers for something else, you're going to have to train them up anyway.

So, to recap, the orca's only advantage is that loot doesn't drop from those bays. Is that worth more training, time, and ISK? Esp. when you'll have to train for and buy a freighter anyway?

side note: the isk/m3 is the cost to the hauler to buy his ship and haul a single load; it is not a measure of ISK earned over time. Since the m3 is calculated based on max volumes, the equation doesn't change with different align times. You're also going to need better align times in your orca to make the 6 - 8 trips necessary to haul the equal of one freighter trip.

100m for an industrial
2b for a freighter
An Orca can use the corporate hangar which can't be scanned so you can carry whatever you want.

Here's a good rule of thumb about what ships of yours will get suicide ganked. If your ship has mass someone out there is looking to gank it. It doesn't have to be profitable for someone to gank you for the 'lulz' . Admittedly the cheaper your ship the more likely you are to get ganked for the hell of it. But people do gank orcas just because they can, any isk made is just a bonus to the tears. I had someone shoot at an empty Interon Mark V in highsec.