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Revision of module fitting rules for Alliance Tournament X

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CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-06-08 15:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Loxy
Following the release of Inferno we introduced several new modules that players could fit. Our intention was to allow all modules to be used during the qualifying weekends and evaluate, if anything, we would need to change in terms of how they could be used.

During our own internal testing we have noticed that using multiple Ancillary Shield Boost modules allowed ships to maintain too large of a tanking capacity which in turn would lead to very boring and lackluster tournament matches. As a result, we have changed the rules as follows:

• New modules, with the exception of the Ancillary Shield Boost, introduced with Inferno will be valid. The Alliance Tournament team will monitor their use and potentially ban or restrict the use of certain modules if we feel they are reducing the overall quality of the tournament.

• The Ancillary Shield Boost module will be restricted to one module per ship for those pilots who wish to fit them.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2012-06-08 18:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Only one ASB per ship.....

Are you trying to make armor setups viable or something?
Vokanic
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-06-08 18:39:59 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Only one ASB per ship.....

Are you trying to make armor setups viable or something?


or you could pretend it was last year and the ASB didnt exist at all.
michael boltonIII
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-08 19:11:58 UTC
It's a pretty balanced mod until you put a couple on a Golem, if you do that in the 6 man's then you can make a team that pretty much can't die.
marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#5 - 2012-06-08 19:37:27 UTC
michael boltonIII wrote:
It's a pretty balanced mod until you put a couple on a Golem, if you do that in the 6 man's then you can make a team that pretty much can't die.


Already showing how crap you are at this game, and what utter garbage we will hear from you speaking in front of an audience.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2012-06-08 19:45:23 UTC
michael boltonIII wrote:
It's a pretty balanced mod until you put a couple on a Golem, if you do that in the 6 man's then you can make a team that pretty much can't die.


We had a pool going on how long it would take to get the ASB restricted and/or eliminated from the tournament....

Sadly, my isk was a restriciton would happen following the first weekend of qualifier rounds... Damnit, I wanted that isk!!!!
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#7 - 2012-06-08 21:15:30 UTC
Good Choice.

CCP Navigator wrote:

• New modules, with the exception of the Ancillary Shield Boost, introduced with Inferno will be valid during the qualifying rounds. The Alliance Tournament team will monitor their use during qualifying rounds and potentially ban or restrict the use of certain modules if we feel they are reducing the overall quality of the tournament.

• The Ancillary Shield Boost module will be restricted to one module per ship for those pilots who wish to fit them.


I am not 100% sure whether I got the wording right.
Does that means we may fit one per ship during qualifying
OR
ASB is not valid during qualifying and will be restricted lateron?
Terios Corvalis
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-06-08 21:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Terios Corvalis
Please clarify:

A: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during pre-qualifying rounds (6 ship matches)

YES / NO?

B: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during qualifying rounds (12 ship matches, group stage)

YES / NO?

C: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during finals (12 ship matches, elimination stage)

YES / NO?
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#9 - 2012-06-08 22:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Edward Olmops wrote:
I am not 100% sure whether I got the wording right.
Does that means we may fit one per ship during qualifying
OR
ASB is not valid during qualifying and will be restricted lateron?


You can fit one of the module on each ship in the qualifying rounds.
(and later on too unless CCP say otherwise after watching the qualifiers)


Terios Corvalis wrote:
Please clarify:

A: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during pre-qualifying rounds (6 ship matches)

YES / NO?

B: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during qualifying rounds (12 ship matches, group stage)

YES / NO?

C: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during finals (12 ship matches, elimination stage)

YES / NO?


A) Yes (these are the qualifiers, which CCP also refer to as pre-qualifiers because they're trying to confuse us)
B) they haven't decided yet
C) they haven't decided yet
michael boltonIII
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-06-08 22:38:24 UTC
marketjacker wrote:
michael boltonIII wrote:
It's a pretty balanced mod until you put a couple on a Golem, if you do that in the 6 man's then you can make a team that pretty much can't die.


Already showing how crap you are at this game, and what utter garbage we will hear from you speaking in front of an audience.


Yep, I'm sure you are way more in the know about what the big teams are testing than I am. I am literally the Brianna of ATIX and ATX.
marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#11 - 2012-06-09 07:30:52 UTC
michael boltonIII wrote:
marketjacker wrote:
michael boltonIII wrote:
It's a pretty balanced mod until you put a couple on a Golem, if you do that in the 6 man's then you can make a team that pretty much can't die.


Already showing how crap you are at this game, and what utter garbage we will hear from you speaking in front of an audience.


Yep, I'm sure you are way more in the know about what the big teams are testing than I am. I am literally the Brianna of ATIX and ATX.


Golem.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#12 - 2012-06-09 16:43:10 UTC
michael boltonIII wrote:
It's a pretty balanced mod until you put a couple on a Golem, if you do that in the 6 man's then you can make a team that pretty much can't die.


I suppose our triple-XL Dominix team is out. And our quad-XL Rokh team. Thanks a lot...
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#13 - 2012-06-09 21:04:35 UTC
Terios Corvalis wrote:
Please clarify:

A: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during pre-qualifying rounds (6 ship matches)

YES / NO?

B: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during qualifying rounds (12 ship matches, group stage)

YES / NO?

C: 1 ancillary shield booster / ship allowed during finals (12 ship matches, elimination stage)

YES / NO?


Yeah we need some clarification on this. We are liable to kill each other arguing about it. The wording is... well you could make the rule wording a lot clearer.
michael boltonIII
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-06-09 21:23:10 UTC
marketjacker wrote:
michael boltonIII wrote:

Yep, I'm sure you are way more in the know about what the big teams are testing than I am. I am literally the Brianna of ATIX and ATX.


Golem.


You can do insane joke fits on a golem and never die, pretty much as long as your third ship can do ok your not gonna lose anything.

Quote:

[Golem, AT]
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Precision Cruise Missile
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Proton Smartbomb II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


I did this in about 2 minutes just picking out random mods in EFT, it reps 5708 dps and is cap stable. You send out 2 and if there's cap warfare you can just run a chain between the two to make enough cap. You get jammed and it doesn't even matter, heck you can load FOF if you want to lol.

You can throw them out there with literally anything else that reps enough to live and is between 4 and 16 points (so anything but a BS pretty much). Here's a tengu that would do ok with the group, once again fit with pretty much no optimization in 2 minutes.

Quote:
[Tengu, AT]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay


This brosef reps about 3000 dps and can run it's ab and whenever you need cap you can just pick up some from the friendly neighborhood golems. It's pretty rough getting 50 points/6 people to do 3k dps to an ab tengu unless you know it's coming.

Here is where the really funny part happens, if you have a logi who can't local rep the dps from these ships? Do you have anything small that can get caught by a lucky shot in 10 minutes? Congrats, you just lost the match, and if you don't lose anything (and brought 50 points) you just stalemated. Unless you get so lucky as to be able to kill the 3rd ship between rep cycles then you are pretty much screwed. EFT isn't really doing the whole rep cycle calcs correctly by my guessing, but I'm telling you that these stone wall fits are pretty much the ultimate troll.

Maruaders are only 17 points, don't count them out if you never actually need to lock anything to win lol. They're the biggest reason the boosters are limited.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#15 - 2012-06-09 22:20:45 UTC
michael boltonIII wrote:

Here is where the really funny part happens, if you have a logi who can't local rep the dps from these ships? Do you have anything small that can get caught by a lucky shot in 10 minutes.


Congrats you came up with a winning strategy given the rules on ancillaries. Yes, it does seem rather silly. I suppose you are just mad that we didn't let you on the team and that is why you are torpedoing all our good ideas... Now we need a bunch of completely different setups.

Anyway can we get an official answers on ancillaries? It seems to me that they are not allowed in the 6v6 matches and (so far) are allowed in the 12v12s. Is this correct?
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#16 - 2012-06-09 23:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Time Funnel wrote:
michael boltonIII wrote:

Here is where the really funny part happens, if you have a logi who can't local rep the dps from these ships? Do you have anything small that can get caught by a lucky shot in 10 minutes.


Congrats you came up with a winning strategy given the rules on ancillaries. Yes, it does seem rather silly. I suppose you are just mad that we didn't let you on the team and that is why you are torpedoing all our good ideas... Now we need a bunch of completely different setups.

Anyway can we get an official answers on ancillaries? It seems to me that they are not allowed in the 6v6 matches and (so far) are allowed in the 12v12s. Is this correct?


no it's not correct, multiples are what isn't allowed

at the moment fitting a single one per ship is allowed in entire tournament (this might change after the prelims)
the dev posts are quite clear on the subject, just a question of reading comprehension i guess :P
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#17 - 2012-06-09 23:27:10 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:

no it's not correct, multiples are what isn't allowed

at the moment fitting a single one per ship is allowed in entire tournament (this might change after the prelims)
the dev posts are quite clear on the subject, just a question of reading comprehension i guess :P


Im not arguing with you. But if you can break down the following sentence for me:

New modules, with the exception of the Ancillary Shield Boost, introduced with Inferno will be valid during the qualifying rounds.
michael boltonIII
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-06-09 23:30:57 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:
michael boltonIII wrote:

Here is where the really funny part happens, if you have a logi who can't local rep the dps from these ships? Do you have anything small that can get caught by a lucky shot in 10 minutes.


Congrats you came up with a winning strategy given the rules on ancillaries. Yes, it does seem rather silly. I suppose you are just mad that we didn't let you on the team and that is why you are torpedoing all our good ideas... Now we need a bunch of completely different setups.

Anyway can we get an official answers on ancillaries? It seems to me that they are not allowed in the 6v6 matches and (so far) are allowed in the 12v12s. Is this correct?


My fits (save the tengu fit which isn't very good by itself) are the ones not allowed by the new rule, so they are already invalid in the tournament. I was unaware that the Test team had good ideas for setups, I thought you were just going to play to the team leadership's strongest skills and have Joe relist all the opposing teams ships before they can buy them.

ASB's are allowed in the prelims as long as you only fit 1 per ship. If they, or any other new mods prove to create excessively overpowered or unreasonable fits that invalidate the balance provided by the point system then they may be removed or limited later on.
michael boltonIII
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-06-09 23:32:27 UTC
Time Funnel wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:

no it's not correct, multiples are what isn't allowed

at the moment fitting a single one per ship is allowed in entire tournament (this might change after the prelims)
the dev posts are quite clear on the subject, just a question of reading comprehension i guess :P


Im not arguing with you. But if you can break down the following sentence for me:

New modules, with the exception of the Ancillary Shield Boost, introduced with Inferno will be valid during the qualifying rounds.



That sentence illustrates that, unlike the other mods, there is a restriction on the use of the ASB.
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#20 - 2012-06-10 00:09:47 UTC
michael boltonIII wrote:

I was unaware that the Test team had good ideas for setups, I thought you were just going to play to the team leadership's strongest skills and have Joe relist all the opposing teams ships before they can buy them.


:zing:

Oh TEST. Why do we bicker so. We are all on the same team yo. Well not the alliance tournament team... Sigh, why is there war? Why do people fight?

Your Tengu fit isn't bad, then I realized it has an afterburner. Yes, it doesn't really have to go anywhere, but if it did it would be so useful in other compositions. Full points for your Golem.

michael boltonIII wrote:

That sentence illustrates that, unlike the other mods, there is a restriction on the use of the ASB.


Ok, I am tired but I am going to try to do this thing right. I am going to explain my interpretation of the rule, explain why it is vague and offer some different wordings that will make it clear to everyone.

Here is what the rules say now:

10. New modules, with the exception of the Ancillary Shield Boost, introduced with Inferno will be valid during the qualifying rounds. The Alliance Tournament team will monitor their use during qualifying rounds and potentially ban or restrict the use of certain modules if we feel they are reducing the overall quality of the tournament.


10 addresses the qualifying rounds or the "round of 32". There is no mention of the pre-qualifying rounds or the "round of 64".
The way the rule is worded leads me to believe that the new modules are valid (valid should really read "allowed") during the qualifying rounds ("round of 32") EXCEPT for the Ancillary Shield Boost modules.

My suggestion is changing the wording of 10. Depending on whether they are allowed or not allowed in the pre-qualifiers.

Rewrite the rule to say:

10. Modules introduced with Inferno are allowed. The Alliance Tournament team will monitor their use during qualifying rounds and potentially ban or restrict the use of certain modules if we feel they are reducing the overall quality of the tournament.

If they are not allowed in the pre-qualifiers then you add an indented thing underneath that says:

During Pre-Qualifying rounds, Ancillary Shield Boosters are not allowed.

And I would go even further to re-write rule #11.

11. Ancillary Shield Boost modules are restricted to one per ship.
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