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Why some of us don't PVP as much as we'd like to, and what can be done to fix that.
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Bloutok
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-06-08 14:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloutok
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.



So, people who posted against incursion were not fighting a game mechanic, people who posted against/for titans nerf/not nerf were not about game mechanics.... It's always about a game mechanic.

People who post against/for the new inventory UI are posting about what ? How to cook a chicken ?

I say again, for years, pod would rarely if not ever explode. The rules of the game are made by CCP and they can change. Why is it wrong now ?

Why are the people who claim one should not fly high priced pods right ?


Forgot to add this..... SP is about implants.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#22 - 2012-06-08 14:33:14 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.


Oh, so training my skills at a decent speed is something I don't have to utilize right?

It's perfectly fine for parasite care bears to stay in their +4 and +5 clones for years on end, and never lose them, and train at full speed, while I get penalized for PVPing.

Your logic, there is none.



That's the real crux of the issue here I reckon, you're more concerned about what someone else is doing. I don't care if someone else has all +5s all the time and is training faster than me, Let go of that and it really doesn't matter much any more.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-06-08 14:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.


Although I can afford them, I've never bought greater than +3 implants. I'm not going to join the 200,000,000 sp club any time soon and the difference between +3 and +5 in terms of time is not really worth it. Things like Slaves... in my dreams. I wish I could afford to buy them, fit them, and lose them, but I can't and most players in Eve couldn't either.

Same old rule: don't fly what you can't afford to lose. And by the sound of things the OP's implants are holding him back. Embrace not having them, or having crap implants. You'll enjoy the fight a lot more.
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-06-08 14:34:57 UTC
Some of you guys sound exactly like the muppets that reacted exactly like this and got on the "gtfo nub" band wagon when people were telling CCP to remove learning skills, because they were a complete waste of time and fun.

And guess what, when it FINALLY happened, everyone was all like "OMFG that is so cool, it was so needed, learning skills sucked anyway".

When CCP finally eventually removes attribute implants and/or attributes altogether and use a method like what I suggested, everyone will say the same thing.

The only reason the response to this right now is so negative is because of all the very loud forum trolls.

I bet that if CCP called a vote for the removal of attribute implants on the login screen, so that everyone would vote before logging in, they would choose to remove them.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-06-08 14:35:15 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.


Oh, so training my skills at a decent speed is something I don't have to utilize right?

It's perfectly fine for parasite care bears to stay in their +4 and +5 clones for years on end, and never lose them, and train at full speed, while I get penalized for PVPing.

Your logic, there is none.



That's the real crux of the issue here I reckon, you're more concerned about what someone else is doing. I don't care if someone else has all +5s all the time and is training faster than me, Let go of that and it really doesn't matter much any more.


Had an animal house moment there... It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter! LoL
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#26 - 2012-06-08 14:35:29 UTC
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.



So, people who posted against incursion were not fighting a game mechanic, people who posted against/for titans nerf/not nerf were not about game mechanics.... It's always about a game mechanic.

People who post against/for the new inventory UI are posting about what ? How to cook a chicken ?

I say again, for years, pod would rarely if not ever explode. The rules of the game are made by CCP and they can change. Why is it wrong now ?

Why are the people who claim one should not fly high priced pods right ?


Forgot to add this..... SP is about implants.


Because this isn't an imbalance in a game mechanic. This is about someone flying what they can't afford to lose and their decision to participate in risk v reward behavior.

There is no "right" or "wrong", there is simply a person choosing to fly in an expensive way and paying the price for it. It is the heart of this game...how are you not understanding this?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#27 - 2012-06-08 14:35:39 UTC
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.



So, people who posted against incursion were not fighting a game mechanic, people who posted against/for titans nerf/not nerf were not about game mechanics.... It's always about a game mechanic.

People who post against/for the new inventory UI are posting about what ? How to cook a chicken ?

I say again, for years, pod would rarely if not ever explode. The rules of the game are made by CCP and they can change. Why is it wrong now ?

Why are the people who claim one should not fly high priced pods right ?



Forgot to add this..... SP is about implants.


and some people use implants for (gasp) pvp
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#28 - 2012-06-08 14:35:41 UTC
I find it amusing because I've hardly, if ever, used implants of any kind. I guess it's a blessing to know you suck at this game enough not to bother spending the money on implants. Smile

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-06-08 14:36:57 UTC
Implants are there to create risk, if you take the risk of going into combat with them then you get rewarded with:
*faster skill training
*better damage, tracking etc(hardwiring imps)
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#30 - 2012-06-08 14:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Kijo Rikki wrote:
I find it amusing because I've hardly, if ever, used implants of any kind. I guess it's a blessing to know you suck at this game enough not to bother spending the money on implants. Smile



yeah, I pretty much equip a set of 3s for training and at times use one hardwire for logi specific stuff, outside of that I barely use em
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#31 - 2012-06-08 14:39:33 UTC
If the fear of losing 35M worth of implants is keeping you from PvPing now, what's going to happen when you're in a Battlecruiser worth 70 or 80 million and it's decision time?

When jsut the trimarks on my battleship cost almost 60 million, then a pair of +4s at 17 or 18 mill each, that I only have a small chance of losing even if my ship is destroyed, is a trivial addition to the risk factor.

If implants are stopping you enjoying the game, don't use implants. Why should other players be denied the opportunity to increase their training speed in return for taking a risk, merely because you want to get the bonus training speed but can't face the risk?

That's exactly the risk I took, and I've probably lost a couple of bill worth of +4s over the years. My reaction: that's just a cost of doing business, and well worth the extra 15M or so SP trained. If that price is too high for you, don't pay it.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-06-08 14:39:41 UTC
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.


Nope. My +5 implants are THE reason I do not PVP often (as in never anymore). Jumping between clones is just too cumbersome, if you want to get into some casual PVP fun in-between or roam through low sec etc.

I would gladly get rid of the implants, but on the other hand I don't want to train more slowly.

Speaking of removing implants: I would go with a solution where everyone gets +3 perma upgrade (maybe via skills) and where all implants except the +1s and +2s are removed (maybe make those two a bit more expensive). Thus we could have the same +5 effect as maximum but at highly reduced cost.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-06-08 14:40:23 UTC
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


i think he is right too, what?

:)
slam34
Transtar Services
#34 - 2012-06-08 14:40:51 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
A good way to make people like me get into PVP way more is to remove attribute implants from the game, and if possible the whole attribute system, all it does is cause headaches and petitions.

And don't start with the "but you have jump clones" bullshit, jump clones have a HUGE timer, and by the time the timer expires, there is already another fleet I have to get into the next day, and it's basically like not being in a +4clone at all.

Not to mention that every time a fleet is made, 80 % of the people on ANY alliance's comms go like "sorry, but my clone timer is not ready..." which leads to less PVP.

So the fixes to this BS would be:

.......meaningless fixes to imagined problems......

Thank you for reading.



You can't be bothered to PvP because of attirbutes, implants, headaches, and petitions? And getting rid of all this stuff will "make you" PvP more? What a load of crap.

High sec: That's the tutorial. Null Sec is the actual game. Wormholes? Even CCP isn't sure.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-08 14:41:34 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Some of you guys sound exactly like the muppets that reacted exactly like this and got on the "gtfo nub" band wagon when people were telling CCP to remove learning skills, because they were a complete waste of time and fun.

And guess what, when it FINALLY happened, everyone was all like "OMFG that is so cool, it was so needed, learning skills sucked anyway".

When CCP finally eventually removes attribute implants and/or attributes altogether and use a method like what I suggested, everyone will say the same thing.

The only reason the response to this right now is so negative is because of all the very loud forum trolls.

I bet that if CCP called a vote for the removal of attribute implants on the login screen, so that everyone would vote before logging in, they would choose to remove them.


I doubt it, I believe the newbs who can't afford implants in this game are a minority, and even they want to boost their rate of SP accumulation, its not about being faster than the other guys, its about getting the skills you want quicker, speed relative to the other players is a none factor in that. Impatience with the learning curve is.
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#36 - 2012-06-08 14:43:27 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.


Nope. My +5 implants are THE reason I do not PVP often (as in never anymore). Jumping between clones is just too cumbersome, if you want to get into some casual PVP fun in-between or roam through low sec etc.

I would gladly get rid of the implants, but on the other hand I don't want to train more slowly.

Speaking of removing implants: I would go with a solution where everyone gets +3 perma upgrade (maybe via skills) and where all implants except the +1s and +2s are removed (maybe make those two a bit more expensive). Thus we could have the same +5 effect as maximum but at highly reduced cost.


So, you are lazy. Cool.
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-06-08 14:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Goldheart
Oh, and by the way, I don't mind losing an expensive ship, but losing an expensive clone and LOSING SKILL POINTS AS A RESULT, pisses me off.

Why?

Because SP, unlike ISK, can't be recovered, your character will be permanently ******** once you start losing SP.

This is especially bad on my main, who is missing 60 million SP because I had to quit Eve for a total of 2 years in increments, because RL was all over the place for a while.

So not only is my main missing a **** TON of SP, but now I have to worry about losing SP when I PVP, because in 0.0, pod death is almost unavoidable.

This causes me to not even feel like PVPing at all, for fear that i will lose even more SP.

I REPEAT.

ISK is NOT a problem, SP is, and removing attribute clones and just giving everyone +5 or just removing attributes altogether, would FIX that fear.

Also, the main reason people quit this game is because they are not having fun, because they are spending hours upon hours they would spend on having fun recovering their losses instead, SP loss and learning implant loss is a major contributor to this.

If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.

Also, not all of us buy PLEX.
Bloutok
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-06-08 14:43:36 UTC
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Bloutok wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.



One more person who think he is right and thus everyone else can only be wrong.


Wow the level of reason you possess is tremendously low.

My point is, OP is trying to fight a game mechanic that he absolutely does not have to utilize. PVP is not dependent on using implants. If your reason for avoiding PVP is because you want to fill your head with million of isk, then well, sorry, that is your decision.

CCP does not and should not alter the game because YOU don't want to lose isk you clearly can't afford to lose.



So, people who posted against incursion were not fighting a game mechanic, people who posted against/for titans nerf/not nerf were not about game mechanics.... It's always about a game mechanic.

People who post against/for the new inventory UI are posting about what ? How to cook a chicken ?

I say again, for years, pod would rarely if not ever explode. The rules of the game are made by CCP and they can change. Why is it wrong now ?

Why are the people who claim one should not fly high priced pods right ?


Forgot to add this..... SP is about implants.


Because this isn't an imbalance in a game mechanic. This is about someone flying what they can't afford to lose and their decision to participate in risk v reward behavior.

There is no "right" or "wrong", there is simply a person choosing to fly in an expensive way and paying the price for it. It is the heart of this game...how are you not understanding this?


And my point is about someone claiming that not PVPing because he wants to learn faster is a troll.

Also, if we could clone jump every 6 hours, i'd do a lot more PVP. And i own 129 plex, i think and above 70 bil and ships and stuff............
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-06-08 14:44:42 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.


Nope. My +5 implants are THE reason I do not PVP often (as in never anymore). Jumping between clones is just too cumbersome, if you want to get into some casual PVP fun in-between or roam through low sec etc.

I would gladly get rid of the implants, but on the other hand I don't want to train more slowly.

Speaking of removing implants: I would go with a solution where everyone gets +3 perma upgrade (maybe via skills) and where all implants except the +1s and +2s are removed (maybe make those two a bit more expensive). Thus we could have the same +5 effect as maximum but at highly reduced cost.


This makes no sense. If +4 and +5 implants did not exist, you would be really happy with your +3's! Think of all the advantages toons have these days: No learning skills, ability to remap attributes, +1, +2, +3, +4, +5 implants (at a price). When we were kids we were happy with a lump of coal.
Noriko Satomi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-06-08 14:45:09 UTC
I'll take reduction of the jumpclone transfer cool down for 2000 Alex.