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April survey results
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Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-06-08 11:21:09 UTC
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die.

I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP?


Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Like you guys didn't do that already to the best of your ability. Please scare me some more...

Dude, only 2400 people could be bothered to fill in that survey so it's clear that there was no concerted effort by anyone. There are 4 x more Goons playing Eve than people who took part in that survey. If, as you think, CCP take notice of these surveys you should be scared. How many Goons voted in the CSM and what happens to these surveys if they all decide to fill in the next one? Do you see where I'm coming from?
Mme Pinkerton
#142 - 2012-06-08 11:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mme Pinkerton
strikethree wrote:
Alexandra Delarge wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
Meanwhile online usage is stagnant.


http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Stagnant?

Ban Bindy wrote:
CCP claims 400k subscribers and continuous growth.


Indeed they do. In fact CCP are close to breaking their all time record for subscriptions to Eve.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/05/e3-2012-ccp-says-it-wants-eve-to-be-around-in-10-20-30-years

I'll past the line that is relevant:

"We are on the cusp of breaking our all-time subscriber record right now,"

Ofc you could just ignore this because you know something that CCP don't or simply because you just don't like being wrong.



Did you even LOOK at the charts that you just linked to? Seriously. Most of the charts look like random noise but look at the all-time chart and the trend is incredibly clear: The number of players online at the same time has been steadily decreasing from a high point about two years ago. I am not seeing what you are describing. Not even close.

tbh I don't see what you are describing.

http://i.imgur.com/0BhzE.png

the high point was January 2011 and the decrease since has not been steady at all - even if you ignore the small peak in June 2011 you have a very clear turnaround in October 2011 (the only reasonably steady part of the graph would be the rise from 2006 to 2008)

An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2012-06-08 11:33:27 UTC
I like how so many people carebears all show up in this thread to show how statistics can be interpreted in different ways Lol

*Hint: The categories are NOT mutually exclusive*

As an example:

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Player style:
Mostly play solo: 16%
Usually play solo: 39%
As much solo as in a group: 25%
Usually in a group:15 %
Mostly in a group: 5%

Now, think of this: WHAT can you do in game if you're playing solo like 45% of the players do? And very specially... HOW LONG before being given the finger by the UNEXISTANT solo endgame? A clue: 54% of players have been in game for less than three years.


1. It's pretty basic maths: 16%+39%=55% (Therefore, where did the 45% 'solo' players come from?)
2. 'Usually play solo', by its wording means the player does not play solo exclusively. Therefore your '45%' (see above) solo players should actually only be 16%.
3. So you're saying that CCP should cater to and tailor their game to 16% of their solo-playerbase?
4. Furthermore, turning this into a carebear vs PVP post does not work, since there are also small PVP corporations where a lot of members solo PVP a lot, and only form up small gangs as and when there are roams.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
It's friggin' great. It turns that PvP is of marginal interest to new players, nullsec is a little bunch of freaks who barely appeal to 1 in 6 players, almost half the subcribers barely play with other players, half the players weren't here three years ago... and yet the whole EVE development revolves around fuking hisec, ignoring soloers and massaging nullseccer's hurt feelings.

Now please somebody come tell me that the survey was completed by hisec alts of l33t nullsec players. Roll



5. How did you derive "PVP is of marginal interest to new players" from the ambiguous numbers shown? Again, please note that the reasons/influences in deciding to join EVE are NOT mutually exclusive.
6. In fact, how did you arrive at the conclusions presented in this part, based on the numbers you quoted? Shocked
7. The best bit is how NO ONE was influenced into joining the game by the EPIC MINING LASERS AND ULTIMATE PVE EXPERIENCE.
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2012-06-08 11:39:54 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Wow lots of casual solo players Big smile

But to be fair it was a survey you had to read so allot of the PVP crowd probably missed that. Twisted


Tal



I find it funny that non-PVPers seem to think PVPers are stupid.

I have a job. I work with a lot of numbers and spreadsheets, which relate to how much RL money/hour I make.

Therefore, when I play a game, I don't want to work with numbers and spreadsheets, calculating my ISK/Hour.

I just want to shoot the breeze with some mates, maybe blow some stuff up.

Therefore, I R STOOPID?
Herr Hammer Draken
#145 - 2012-06-08 11:46:16 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing.


I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution...

You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this.


I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online.
And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums.
The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2012-06-08 11:48:38 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Haha if the next expansion is for us carebears then pvp-ers will need to use their own advice and "adapt" or gtfo :D

This poll result is so very satisfying.


Incarna: Didn't adapt, GTFO'd. CCP thought, OOPS...
Theoretical carebear expansion: Most likely we will find new ways of killing you, thus 'adapting'.

The funny thing is, PVPers DO heed their own advice, and are actually 'adapting or GTFO-ing'. Question is, can YOU 'adapt or GTFO'?

Most likely not. Screw adapting, screw 'leaving' like always threatened. Might as well just go on the forums and have a good cry.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#147 - 2012-06-08 11:49:25 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing.


I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution...

You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this.


I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online.
And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums.
The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well.


The reality is this. carebears are like the Ebola Virus, they enter a game and it's all over.

For the last 15 years, they ****** up every single game... they always start playing games they don't like, and always, ALWAYS, try and change them, until the game fits their "carebear" needs. At that point, the game is dead.


Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...

The Tears Must Flow
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2012-06-08 11:50:42 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing.


I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution...

You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this.


I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online.
And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums.
The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well.


Change WILL happen, and we welcome change. Who wants to play a game that stagnates for 9 years? Since I started playing, the gameplay, mechanics, ships, bonuses, weapons etc have been changed multiple times. We adapt. Can they?
Herr Hammer Draken
#149 - 2012-06-08 11:55:58 UTC
[quote=lollerwaffleChange WILL happen, and we welcome change. Who wants to play a game that stagnates for 9 years? Since I started playing, the gameplay, mechanics, ships, bonuses, weapons etc have been changed multiple times. We adapt. Can they?[/quote]

Well good for you this is the attitude.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Herr Hammer Draken
#150 - 2012-06-08 11:57:07 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
[The reality is this. carebears are like the Ebola Virus, they enter a game and it's all over.

For the last 15 years, they ****** up every single game... they always start playing games they don't like, and always, ALWAYS, try and change them, until the game fits their "carebear" needs. At that point, the game is dead.


Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...


And not so good for you this is the wrong attitude. Resistance is futile!

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#151 - 2012-06-08 12:00:20 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
And not so good for you this is the wrong attitude. Resistance is futile!
So what you're suggesting is that we should dip all carebears in flesh-dissolving reactor gas?
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#152 - 2012-06-08 12:03:20 UTC
The Survery results show that there are people playing EVE Online.

Now all move along and play ingame.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#153 - 2012-06-08 12:06:07 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Wow lots of casual solo players Big smile

But to be fair it was a survey you had to read so allot of the PVP crowd probably missed that. Twisted


Tal



I find it funny that non-PVPers seem to think PVPers are stupid.

I have a job. I work with a lot of numbers and spreadsheets, which relate to how much RL money/hour I make.

Therefore, when I play a game, I don't want to work with numbers and spreadsheets, calculating my ISK/Hour.

I just want to shoot the breeze with some mates, maybe blow some stuff up.

Therefore, I R STOOPID?


I dont assume anyone is stupid (well some maybe Lol). I do find some lack a sense of humour though P

Tal
Herr Hammer Draken
#154 - 2012-06-08 12:07:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
And not so good for you this is the wrong attitude. Resistance is futile!
So what you're suggesting is that we should dip all carebears in flesh-dissolving reactor gas?


The department of sunshine and lollipops is twisted.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#155 - 2012-06-08 12:09:18 UTC
Surveys are fun, I am saddened that I was not made aware of this one and therefore could not participate. I am also saddened when Gallop calls my home wanting to take a survey, it would be neat to have my opinion counted in those fancy polls thay put in the news....but dammit, PowerPuff Girls are on and I cannot be bothered.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#156 - 2012-06-08 12:10:49 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Haha if the next expansion is for us carebears then pvp-ers will need to use their own advice and "adapt" or gtfo :D

This poll result is so very satisfying.



If you think that the results from such a small sample size are satisfying or in any way conclusive then you're easily pleased and kidding yourself. 2400 taking the survey doesn't give a large enough sample size of the whole EVE playerbase to provide meaningful results, 2400 survey takers only gives a very loose overview of what's going on in EVE.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#157 - 2012-06-08 12:20:03 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
[If you think that the results from such a small sample size are satisfying or in any way conclusive then you're easily pleased and kidding yourself. 2400 taking the survey doesn't give a large enough sample size of the whole EVE playerbase to provide meaningful results, 2400 survey takers only gives a very loose overview of what's going on in EVE.
2400 is a perfectly adequate sample size for a population of 400,000. It gives you an error of ±0.02 at 95% confidence, and it sits comfortably across the threshold where it's increasingly no longer really worth-while to start adding more participants.

With that said, I don't quite get why Kiteo Hatto thinks it's a satisfying result for carebears, since it shows that fewer than 6% joined the game for that reason, so it's not like they're going to make any effort to shore up such a paltry number.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#158 - 2012-06-08 12:22:26 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online.
And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums.
The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well.


Change WILL happen, and we welcome change. Who wants to play a game that stagnates for 9 years? Since I started playing, the gameplay, mechanics, ships, bonuses, weapons etc have been changed multiple times. We adapt. Can they?

I was going to write something along those lines, but you beat me to it.

I find it a bit silly that this guy thinks that the people who have been adapting to changes by finding new and inventive ways to murder the **** out of each other over these past nine years will have a more difficult time adapting to future changes than the carebears. I do agree that the game is changing; however, not all change is objectively good change. The changes that were made to SWG and UO, for example, ended up destroying the products. EVE can change, and while we're ready to adapt to change, we can't adapt to death. If the changes go too far, and the game's core integrity is compromised, there is little hope for its future.

Personally, I will continue slagging carebears until CCP removes my ability to fire at them with my weapons. At that point, I will infiltrate their corporations and steal everything I can from them. When my ability to do so is taken away, I will go to their belts and mission areas, and bump their ships away from their targets. If that gets taken away too, then I will simply move on to a game with a more hardcore pvp component, such as Star Trek Online, or maybe Egosoft's X series.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Disdaine
#159 - 2012-06-08 12:52:54 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:

Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...


Remember it quite well.

They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#160 - 2012-06-08 13:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Disdaine wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:

Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...


Remember it quite well.

They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered.


Yep, UO was so awesome that it was dying. So they introduced the "carebear" Trammel, and soon after it was introduced, the game was getting record subscription numbers in excess of 250k back in 2003.

Of course in 2004 the "godawful carebear piece-o-crap WoW" came out and blew them all out of the water, but hey, that's nothing. Who wants to run a successful business earning hundreds of millions a year for 8 years running in this economy anyhow? Roll

So yeah, keep thinking that PvPers and gankers are the future. Despite all available evidence showing otherwise.

EDIT: I would also love to see a similar survey regarding the new UI. Just to see how many people wanted it, how many prefer it to the old UI, etc., etc. I have a gut feeling the reaction to it is overwhelmingly negative,