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So how long do we have to wait for the next round of ship balancing?

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Lili Lu
#21 - 2012-06-08 04:43:23 UTC
But really this game is about windows for keeping track of space stuff. Don't take any developer effort off of that important task. **** spaceships. That there are so many ships in the current database that are worthless, and a few that are everywhere (a certain BC and a certain strategic cruiser) is no big deal.

Sarcasm off - You damn well better get faster at fixing the ships, even as you have now burdened yourselves with the new necessity of fixing the mess that is the new inventory.
Seleucus Ontuas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-06-08 05:41:13 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Mira Lynne wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Nope totally not able to buy a cruiser hull and fit mining lasers to it until summer.

Completely Incapable of fitting 3 mining Lasers on a Punisher and getting pretty much the same ammount of Yield. Or on a Tormentor and having Drones to Defend themselves. Or mine with.

You can't fit three miners on either a Punisher or a Tormentor. Besides, where would a newbie fresh out of Aura's tutorial get a Punisher from?


Considering the number of Atrons, Navitius, and the catalyst and Tristan I got my the tutorial missions, I'd assume one could have a Punisher within a hour of doing the tutorial missions. You can easily finish all the tutorial missions and have close to 2 mil in your pocket, a destroyer, several frigates, and a crapton of skillbooks.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#23 - 2012-06-08 06:04:51 UTC
While we're on this topic and Devs are posting, what about the T1 Scanning frig? It has a defined role and is quite widely used, there are also no other cheap options for bonused scanning, are they re-balancing that into something completely different too?

and agreed on points above, they need to get to the re-balancing of all the mining frigs ASAP to remove the discrepancy between the races frigs as newbies will be confused and as said, affording your first mining cruise is quite costly for a new player.
Oraac Ensor
#24 - 2012-06-08 07:31:14 UTC
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
Considering the number of Atrons, Navitius, and the catalyst and Tristan I got my the tutorial missions, I'd assume one could have a Punisher within a hour of doing the tutorial missions. You can easily finish all the tutorial missions and have close to 2 mil in your pocket, a destroyer, several frigates, and a crapton of skillbooks.

Perhaps you would like to read my post again and re-think your reply.

How does the newbie's situation after finishing the tutorials help him while he is doing them?

And even if he gets a Punisher, how does he get around the problem that he can't actually fit three miners to it as suggested?
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-06-08 15:33:02 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
Considering the number of Atrons, Navitius, and the catalyst and Tristan I got my the tutorial missions, I'd assume one could have a Punisher within a hour of doing the tutorial missions. You can easily finish all the tutorial missions and have close to 2 mil in your pocket, a destroyer, several frigates, and a crapton of skillbooks.

Perhaps you would like to read my post again and re-think your reply.

How does the newbie's situation after finishing the tutorials help him while he is doing them?

And even if he gets a Punisher, how does he get around the problem that he can't actually fit three miners to it as suggested?


Exactly why do you *need* 3 mining lasers, anyway? Sure, it's nice having ~2.6 lasers on the bonused frigates until, oh, a day or so later when you can slap a couple CPU's on a Coercer and get your 3 lasers. Yeah, Amarr small-ships can't fit as many miners as the rest. Miners are also so incredibly less important to a new player's ability to get started than ever, so I don't think it's *that* great a handicap. If anything, all off the current crop of so-called "mining" frigates and cruisers should probably get their bonuses re-worked, about the only place it really makes sense is the Osprey and even that's debatable with the Cormorant hanging around.
Oraac Ensor
#26 - 2012-06-09 02:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Thelron wrote:
Exactly why do you *need* 3 mining lasers, anyway?

The poster I originally replied to was suggesting that as a way of getting the same mining yield as the Tormentor's previous bonus provided.

Why not try reading ALL the posts in a thread before replying and thereby hopefully avoid the danger of taking one of them out of context?
Seleucus Ontuas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-10 06:07:52 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
Considering the number of Atrons, Navitius, and the catalyst and Tristan I got my the tutorial missions, I'd assume one could have a Punisher within a hour of doing the tutorial missions. You can easily finish all the tutorial missions and have close to 2 mil in your pocket, a destroyer, several frigates, and a crapton of skillbooks.

Perhaps you would like to read my post again and re-think your reply.

How does the newbie's situation after finishing the tutorials help him while he is doing them?

And even if he gets a Punisher, how does he get around the problem that he can't actually fit three miners to it as suggested?


You're a funny one aren't you. You asked where a noob would be getting a Punisher. You get a Punisher from finishing the combat tutorial, which you can do before, after, or even during the industrial tutorial. If you do the advanced combat tutorial, which doesn't require you to finish the combat tutorial before starting, you get a coercer. What I was trying to point out that you get enough spare ships and cash that you can easily buy yourself a Tier 1 or Tier 2 cruiser, letting use a cruiser to mine. The payouts from the tutorial missions are closer to Level 2 missions than they are to Level 1 missions. Level 1 missions are by far much lower payouts than tutorial.

And what exactly is stopping someone from fitting three miners to a punisher? Electronics 4, Electronics Upgrade 1, and Electronics Rigging 1 can by skilled within a day, giving access to Overcloaking CPU rigs and co-processors and extra base CPU.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#28 - 2012-06-10 08:24:50 UTC
About t1 cruisers thorax is actually a quite lovely 'mini-proteus" now that hybrid guns and ammo are more in line with the rest of the racial variants (especially fitting wise).
Oraac Ensor
#29 - 2012-06-10 11:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
And what exactly is stopping someone from fitting three miners to a punisher?
According to EFT the Punisher doesn't have enough CPU for three mining lasers, even with all skills at 5.

Quote:
Electronics 4, Electronics Upgrade 1, and Electronics Rigging 1 can by skilled within a day, giving access to Overcloaking CPU rigs and co-processors and extra base CPU.
And even if all of that works, every newbie will know about it and be able to afford it, won't he? Roll

You might know how/where to get all that stuff, but your average newbie won't have a clue. The point being that as things stand at the moment newbies will presumably still be given a Tormentor to mine with in the industrial tutorial. How the **** are they supposed to know that they can get anything else to do the job, or even that they can swap in and out of the different tutorials? They're told they can do the tutorials in any order (which isn't exactly true anyway) but not that they can move back and forth between them.

Edit: And don't forget the mining frigates don't/didn't get bonuses only for mining yield but also for cargo capacity, which further enhanced their already larger than average cargoholds. The Tormentor has now lost its larger hold, making it even less suitable for a newbie to mine in.
Seleucus Ontuas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-06-10 19:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleucus Ontuas
I started playing this game less than a year ago, I remember my first few weeks pretty well. I'll tell you right now that when I started nothing even mentioned that the Navitas was the Gallente mining frigate and I immediately went out and started mining in a Catalyst. And that was a good thing too, because the Catalyst was a much better miner, for the like 3 hours that I actually mined before going off and doing level 1 combat missions.

Taking quick look right now between the Catalyst and Navitas shows that the Catalyst can fit 3 Miner Is and 3 Expanded Cargohold Is without fitting issues (keep in mind that Newbs start with Electronics 3 so they have the CPU for 3 Miner Is) compared to the Navitas's 2 Miner Is and 2 Expanded Cargohold Is.

At level 5 skills, the Catalyst has close to 650m3 room compared to the Navitas, which gets a bonus to cargohold, 371m3. At level 5 Gallente Frigate, the Navitas will mine the equivalent of one extra Miner I over the Catalyst, but having close to half the cargohold will obviously affect the efficiency of that bonus. Furthermore, the Catalyst still has room for guns, which means it can kill the random frigate rats that may spawn without having to reship.

Taking a look between the Coercer and the old Tormentor, since I realized that I still have an EFT with the old Crucible stats, the same applies as between the Catalyst and Navitus. The Coercer has the CPU for 3 Miner Is and has a larger cargohold, though the Tormentor outmines it by the equivalent of 1 Miner I.

As previously stated, you get a racial destroyer for free from the tutorials. And though you might be right that a newb probably wouldn't know about Co-processors and CPU rigs, he is able to afford it. As I said I started playing less than a year ago, and I remember my time in the tutorial area decently well. After finishing the tutorial missions I bought myself a Thorax. Thoraxes back then were 6 mil and I bought mine by placing a buy order for 5.5mil, which someone was nice enough to fill for me.

At the end of the day, I'm rather sure you're whining over spilled milk.
drdxie
#31 - 2012-06-10 19:59:33 UTC
What we need is a new pirate faction Battle ship with bonuses to missiles. Rattlesnake = drone boat, mach = Projectiles, NM= lasers, Vindicator=blasters .. PLEASE!!!!!!

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
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