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The loki... is it just me or does it suck?
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#21 - 2012-06-05 05:56:55 UTC
I think you miss the point. The dude(s) invested in a gang link Loki, a Falcon in case it went bad, and at least 1.5-2Bn in the Loki, plus a shlub in a cane for DPS. There's a difference between Because of Falcon, and a Loki being a sufficiently slippery creature that even without the Falcon alt, we wouldn't likely have killed him in that particular situation. Basically exactly the same as a 100MN Tengu. Invest, you can win.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#22 - 2012-06-05 08:07:06 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
I think you miss the point. The dude(s) invested in a gang link Loki, a Falcon in case it went bad, and at least 1.5-2Bn in the Loki, plus a shlub in a cane for DPS. There's a difference between Because of Falcon, and a Loki being a sufficiently slippery creature that even without the Falcon alt, we wouldn't likely have killed him in that particular situation. Basically exactly the same as a 100MN Tengu. Invest, you can win.


The Loki isn't a terrible ship - i just feel it isn't quite up to where it should be. i think it would be better to explain it like this:

Tengu: lower 'paper' (read: EFT) dps, but extreme range on HML and 100% hit quality.
Legion: Again, lower 'paper' dps but operates in optimal for good 'real' dps
Proteus: Good EHP and Active tanking bonus (highest in the game) which allows it to get close for is 'paper' dps to match it's real DPS
Loki: Has a kiting module bonus, good 'paper' dps but operates in falloff, so really does the same damage as a frigate. Doesn't have an active tanking bonus or a good EHP either to build to get in close like the proteus, or hurricane.

No one is scared of the vagabond anymore because nano is dead and warp core stabs aren't useable in PVP fits (yes, if you remember back that long ago, WCS where standard on a vaga). The loki is essentially a beefed up vaga. The sliepnir is a mega beefed vaga with the advantage of having a tank, which is why people fly it.

The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.

The final point im making is: I shouldn't have to spend 1.5bil on a loki for it to be good. If you spend that on any T3 they will be good... but the tengu and proteus are good with t2 - the legion is also capable of certain insane gang roles with t2... whereas the loki is literally just an expensive vagabond... or a gang booster for people to make silly 'solo' PVP videos.

Fly a sleipnir with the new Ancil shield booster and then tell me how goo the loki is.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-05 08:27:22 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:

The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.


OK, now I realize you are trolling.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-06-05 11:42:54 UTC
IMO the Loki is a solid* ship that needs no more or less work than the other T3's need. Other ship classes need way more work and should be looked at first.

*A Loki always makes its presence felt on the battlefield
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#25 - 2012-06-05 12:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Mfume Apocal wrote:

The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.




Hi I'm a Huginn and I'm a staple of every major shield doctrine and in the top 20 ships on EVE Kill.

Hi I'm a Rapier, I'm a staple of a lot of armour fleets including the famous Hellcat doctrine, I am also one of the most effective blops ships available.

Hi I'm a bonused web Loki, since the proliferation of T3s I am a staple of AHAC and general armour fleets.


Your post is bad (and wrong) and you should feel bad.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#26 - 2012-06-05 12:26:06 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:

The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.




Hi I'm a Huginn and I'm a staple of every major shield doctrine and in the top 20 ships on EVE Kill.

Hi I'm a Rapier, I'm a staple of a lot of armour fleets including the famous Hellcat doctrine, I am also one of the most effective blops ships available.

Hi I'm a bonused web Loki, since the proliferation of T3s I am a staple of AHAC and general armour fleets.


Your post is bad (and wrong) and you should feel bad.


You posted out of character dude, careful, you'll get kicked.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-06-05 12:44:48 UTC
But what about PvE?

/carebear

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#28 - 2012-06-05 12:52:34 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
But what about PvE?

/carebear


Then it really IS trash :p
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#29 - 2012-06-05 12:57:21 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:

The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.




Hi I'm a Huginn and I'm a staple of every major shield doctrine and in the top 20 ships on EVE Kill.

Hi I'm a Rapier, I'm a staple of a lot of armour fleets including the famous Hellcat doctrine, I am also one of the most effective blops ships available.

Hi I'm a bonused web Loki, since the proliferation of T3s I am a staple of AHAC and general armour fleets.


Your post is bad (and wrong) and you should feel bad.


You posted out of character dude, careful, you'll get kicked.


Its fine, the only Amarr ships I fly are Navy Slicers and Interceptors on occasion.

I mostly live in Rapiers/Huginns so I know how usefull they are (Recon V FTW) and Hurricanes.
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#30 - 2012-06-06 00:10:39 UTC
I think it depends on where you live. A lot of wh alliances have the loki as their bread and butter.
Dunno if it works outside WH.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Kalli Brixzat
#31 - 2012-06-06 02:58:24 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
I think it depends on where you live. A lot of wh alliances have the loki as their bread and butter.
Dunno if it works outside WH.


The Loki is an EXCELLENT fleet ship. Both PvP and high end PvE. The DPS lacks IMHO, but the ability to fit either a shield or armor tank is the kind of versatility that people love.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: The Loki's tackling ability makes it lethal. Dual or even triple-Web Loki's can quicksand 1 or more ships, making them easy pickings for your heavy hitters.
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
#32 - 2012-06-06 15:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrkala
I remember a fleet where we had mostly armor Lokis with 720s and webs, and we pretty much wrecked a similar sized AB Tengu fleet.

"SHAC" Loki is also boss, though not as relevant anymore since we got Tier 3s with more range and dps, but lacking in everything else...
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-06-06 15:24:09 UTC
Myrkala wrote:
I remember a fleet where we had mostly armor Lokis with 720s and webs, and we pretty much wrecked a similar sized AB Tengu fleet.

"SHAC" Loki is also boss, though not as relevant anymore since we got Tier 3s with more range and dps, but lacking in everything else...



Double faction web armor Lokis <3 forever and so sexeh

brb
kyrv
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-07 08:41:04 UTC
-The Major shortfall is the Augmented capacitor subsystem and immobility drivers need to add more CPU.. so that you fit larger weapons and at least have a GYRO or ballistic in the low and use armour Tank.

-The slot layout come to one fault being if you want to shield Tank & Immobility drivers, you have a very low shield HP buffer.

So Armour or Shield your Loki will not perform very well at all..


But I know as does a Tengu pilot that you do not have the special abilities on your T3 without some give however if you design a mid slot intensive damage setup it just looks plain ugly.
Arnst Atram
Downgraded Avengers
Hard Knocks Citizens
#35 - 2012-06-07 15:19:38 UTC
Rather than the Loki being unimpressive, the way i see it is the Loki is the one CCP got right. T3's were meant to be Generalists that weren't really the best at anything, the Loki is, generally speaking, just that. It's considered the most generalist of the T3's by most people.
On the other hand, the Legion is too weak, and the Tengu is just too good at some things. I can't speak for the Proteus, i've never flown one, but i hear good things.

In other words, the Loki is fine, the other T3's are the problem.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#36 - 2012-06-07 15:23:33 UTC
Arnst Atram wrote:
Rather than the Loki being unimpressive, the way i see it is the Loki is the one CCP got right. T3's were meant to be Generalists that weren't really the best at anything, the Loki is, generally speaking, just that. It's considered the most generalist of the T3's by most people.
On the other hand, the Legion is too weak, and the Tengu is just too good at some things. I can't speak for the Proteus, i've never flown one, but i hear good things.

In other words, the Loki is fine, the other T3's are the problem.


If thats the case then it's a mostly pointless ship class.

You can't hot-swap modules or subsystems, so basically once your out in the deep black, your out. I'd rather buy a specialised ship for much less.

The only thing the loki does *best* is maintain good EHP while fitting a full rack of 720's. But thats still only 320 dps :/
Arnst Atram
Downgraded Avengers
Hard Knocks Citizens
#37 - 2012-06-07 15:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arnst Atram
Maeltstome wrote:

If thats the case then it's a mostly pointless ship class.

You can't hot-swap modules or subsystems, so basically once your out in the deep black, your out. I'd rather buy a specialised ship for much less.

The only thing the loki does *best* is maintain good EHP while fitting a full rack of 720's. But thats still only 320 dps :/


The Tengu is far quicker to get into and fly effectively than a Raven, as it shares most of its fitting skills the Drake and the majority of the Skill requirements are Core fitting skills and such that should be trained anyway. I'm pretty sure CCP intended for T3's to fill the role of a waypoint for newer players as they move towards more specialized ships. Rather than introducing something better, and relegating older ships to the trash heap, something that people get before they can effectively use those older ships, which they transition too later.

Edit: The example is speaking from a New player running Missions perspective, of course.
Hal Safon
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#38 - 2012-06-08 00:37:28 UTC
Loki is fine, most people just fail at fitting it.

Amazing instalocker, amazing t3 booster/scout, great heavy tackle.

In my opinion, for combat roles the ship lends itself better to armor tanking, taking full advantage of its small sig and opening up mid slots for it web bonus.

I have had good success with my 100mn armor fit as well.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#39 - 2012-06-08 02:07:21 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
random faff which is entirely based on zero experience


I think I should have realised you had no idea what you were talking about when I saw which corporation you were in, but you have now certainly exposed yourself for a troll.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Headerman1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-06-08 08:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Headerman1
I think when it comes to the Loki, it's not about the DPS, and it's not about the tank. It's about everything else.

Edit: actually it does suck cause the PG and CPU are too small. For a very expensive ship that is suppose to do a lot, you'd expect it to have more PG and CPU
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