These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

We Aren't Trying Hard Enough

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#81 - 2012-06-08 01:35:15 UTC
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
Keep lying Tippia
I have to start before I can “keep” doing it.

What you just quoted still doesn't say what you wish it said. So no, 66% of players are not in highsec.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-06-08 01:36:53 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Greyscale Dash wrote:
Apparently the survey results indicate that most people do two very naughty things.

1. play solo
2. are pve only.

In fact, only about 1/4 of all players are interested in the pvp aspects of the game.

Errr... source? linky?


It doesn't matter. The whole context of the survey just illuminates ignorance as to what Eve is: PVP.


Dont' be silly, if EVE is a sandbox then it's what players make of it. If it's over 50% solo PvE then it's a PvE game.

In reality, all that's happened is that a whole lot of PvE players are playing EVE because it's the only s-f game in town. It looks great, and it's rich and complex with many ladders of achievement. At best, most of the PvE-ers who play it are reconciled to the "danger" of being violenced by PvP.

IOW, the shenanigans you PvP dudes get up to just give a background sense of aliveness to the game for the rest of us Big smile

Oh, and, it's only a game ...
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-06-08 01:40:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Stensson
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Dont' be silly, if EVE is a sandbox then it's what players make of it. If it's over 50% solo PvE then it's a PvE game.

In reality, all that's happened is that a whole lot of PvE players are playing EVE because it's the only s-f game in town. It looks great, and it's rich and complex with many ladders of achievement. At best, most of the PvE-ers who play it are reconciled to the "danger" of being violenced by PvP.

IOW, the shenanigans you PvP dudes get up to just give a background sense of aliveness to the game for the rest of us Big smile

Oh, and, it's only a game ...

If it were truly a PVE game because sandboxes are a democracy and a majority are only interested in PVE, then nobody would be getting ganked in high-sec or low-sec or null-sec because, alas, the game is PVE content by popular demand.

Sandbox != Democracy.

Nice try though, really.

Edit: Pyramid quoting removed - ISD Stensson
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-06-08 01:48:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
So masternerdguy makes up the majority of all plaeyrs...him...his lone account?
Unlikely, but it's entirely possible that people like him are not a minority or a small percentage of players.


This is what happens in the seedier part of the town. See how the human trash gets left behind, and become a feature around these parts?Big smile
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-06-08 01:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
Disregard That wrote:

If it were truly a PVE game because sandboxes are a democracy and a majority are only interested in PVE, then nobody would be getting ganked in high-sec or low-sec or null-sec because, alas, the game is PVE content by popular demand.

Sandbox != Democracy.

Nice try though, really.


Who said anything about democracy?

Here are a bunch of tools, which include PvE elements and PvP elements. There's your sandbox. If it so happens that the majority of players who play the game pick up the PvE tools and don't use the PvP tools, if that forms the majority of the activity in the game, then it's a PvE game by function. (Incidentally, to forestall a certain line of criticism, it should be obvious that ships are lost in PvE too.)

IOW, the sandbox was created with a mixture of PvE and PvP activities possible in it, and lo and behold, it turns out that most of the people who come into the game play it as a casual solo PvE game. (Possibly - I dunno if that's actually true, just arguing the point, but it seems about right since every other MMORPG is like that too - most subs are from casuals, and most casuals are soloers.)

The fact that the PvP element of "danger" is always present even for PvE-ers is then merely a result of a minority of players picking up the PvP tools in the sandbox and playing with them.

And that's perfectly ok, since it's a sandbox Big smile
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-06-08 02:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Forums broke?

hmmmmmm, won't let me post other than this...
masternerdguy wrote:
Except that the only thing keeping this game from falling on its face is the player generated content aka nullsec. EVE is built around nullsec. Everything, until recently, existed to support nullsec and gently nudge players towards it.

Flashfresh got me into Eve... NOT 0.0

Eve Bank, Guiding Hand Social Club, more recently the Gallente Ice Interdiction, all 5 Hulkageddons and Burn Jita . . . yep, all centered around null sec...


TBQH, I don't know why anyone would bother with Null anymore.

Goons/Test & the rest of the CFC pretty much are the 900# gorillas now (a.k.a. - "new BoB") going where they want, doing what they want to whomever they want. When the *next* moon mineral nerf/change/tweak goes in, you can bet your last dollar that the CFC will figure out where the *new* "north" is and go take that. Why would anyone bother going to 0.0 when you *know*, without a doubt that if CFC & Co want that space, they *will* take it? Why go to "K-Space" 0.0, that is...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-06-08 02:02:47 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
So masternerdguy makes up the majority of all plaeyrs...him...his lone account?
Unlikely, but it's entirely possible that people like him are not a minority or a small percentage of players.


This is what happens in the seedier part of the town. See how the human trash gets left behind, and become a feature around these parts?Big smile


Personal insults? You lost the argument mate.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-06-08 02:03:27 UTC

Tippia wrote:
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
lying... what? Yeah you
Yes you.

It wasn't 75% and, as always, it wasn't players. So no, [whatever]% of players are not in highsec.

By the way, do you have an actual source for that quote?

Why yes, yes we do...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#89 - 2012-06-08 02:04:11 UTC
What is even funnier is that the vast majority of PvP is taking place now in high-sec rather than low and null sec. RvB makes up the most. RvB is like the casual version of PvP. You don't have to live EVE in order to enjoy some PvP.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-06-08 02:04:37 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Tippia wrote:
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
lying... what? Yeah you
Yes you.

It wasn't 75% and, as always, it wasn't players. So no, [whatever]% of players are not in highsec.

By the way, do you have an actual source for that quote?

Why yes, yes we do...


Accounts != players != characters.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Large Marg
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-06-08 02:04:50 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Or CCP can take 75% of their income and donate it to fund therapy for recovering kb-humpers. Same effect.Big smile


No, it just means CCP is so caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base, when clearly there is a larger portion that wants more PvE aspects added. I bet if CCP were to really do something about adding WiS and more PvE elements, this games subs would go through the roof.


Yep, but it wouldn't be EVE anymore. And I wouldn't be playing it.


When you quit can I haz your stuff?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-06-08 02:05:17 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
What is even funnier is that the vast majority of PvP is taking place now in high-sec rather than low and null sec. RvB makes up the most. RvB is like the casual version of PvP. You don't have to live EVE in order to enjoy some PvP.


The casual version of pvp is getting a rifter and going to lo sec.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2012-06-08 02:05:24 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Disregard That wrote:

If it were truly a PVE game because sandboxes are a democracy and a majority are only interested in PVE, then nobody would be getting ganked in high-sec or low-sec or null-sec because, alas, the game is PVE content by popular demand.

Sandbox != Democracy.

Nice try though, really.


Who said anything about democracy?

Here are a bunch of tools, which include PvE elements and PvP elements. There's your sandbox. If it so happens that the majority of players who play the game pick up the PvE tools and don't use the PvP tools, if that forms the majority of the activity in the game, then it's a PvE game by function. (Incidentally, to forestall a certain line of criticism, it should be obvious that ships are lost in PvE too.)

IOW, the sandbox was created with a mixture of PvE and PvP activities possible in it, and lo and behold, it turns out that most of the people who come into the game play it as a casual solo PvE game. (Possibly - I dunno if that's actually true, just arguing the point, but it seems about right since every other MMORPG is like that too - most subs are from casuals, and most casuals are soloers.)

The fact that the PvP element of "danger" is always present even for PvE-ers is then merely a result of a minority of players picking up the PvP tools in the sandbox and playing with them.

And that's perfectly ok, since it's a sandbox Big smile

What you're saying assumes that these "self-described" PVE players never buy or sell anything on contracts or the market, never mine in public areas, and never rat in a public area.

All of these are PVP tools which the casual soloist apparently misconstrues as PVE, if the data in the survey is to be believed.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-06-08 02:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Stensson
masternerdguy wrote:
Accounts != players != characters.

And the snapshot shows activity... why? Are you denying that there are more people in Hi-sec now? There is very little way to parse the numbers, when the numbers are so sparse...

Snapshot is as good as it gets.

Edit: Pyramid quoting removed - ISD Stensson

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-06-08 02:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Disregard That
Ginseng Jita wrote:
What is even funnier is that the vast majority of PvP is taking place now in high-sec rather than low and null sec. RvB makes up the most. RvB is like the casual version of PvP. You don't have to live EVE in order to enjoy some PvP.

What with the markets and the contracts and the belt mining and the belt ratting, it seems self-evident that most of the PVP in Eve happens in high-sec. Trade volumes alone indicate a massive amount of PVP happens there daily.

Just not according to the carebear's narrow dogmatic view.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-06-08 02:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, do you have an actual source for that quote?

Why yes, yes we do...
That's not the source of the quote — that's a different point of comparison saying roughly the same thing (which still isn't that any specific percentage of players are in highsec).

Since the numbers won't really tell anything new and interesting, I was mainly wondering about the date to see which way the numbers were heading.

Quote:
And the snapshot shows activity...
No, it shows character locations at the time of the data collection.
Quote:
Are you denying that there are more people in Hi-sec now? There is very little way to parse the numbers, when the numbers are so sparse...
What he and I are saying is that the amount of people in highsec is unknowable and that trying to extrapolate them from something as unrelated as a character count will be so inherently unreliable that, yes, it could very well be that highsec has a minority of the players.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-06-08 02:08:06 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
What is even funnier is that the vast majority of PvP is taking place now in high-sec rather than low and null sec. RvB makes up the most. RvB is like the casual version of PvP. You don't have to live EVE in order to enjoy some PvP.

What with the markets and the contracts and the belt mining and the belt rats, it seems self-evident that most of the PVP in Eve happens in high-sec. Trade volumes alone indicate a massive amount of PVP happens there daily.

Just not according to the carebear's narrow dogmatic view.

Post with your frikken main...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-06-08 02:08:31 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
What is even funnier is that the vast majority of PvP is taking place now in high-sec rather than low and null sec. RvB makes up the most. RvB is like the casual version of PvP. You don't have to live EVE in order to enjoy some PvP.

What with the markets and the contracts and the belt mining and the belt rats, it seems self-evident that most of the PVP in Eve happens in high-sec. Trade volumes alone indicate a massive amount of PVP happens there daily.

Just not according to the carebear's narrow dogmatic view.

Post with your frikken main...

I would if I could?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-06-08 02:08:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, do you have an actual source for that quote?

Why yes, yes we do...
That's not the source of the quote — that's a different point of comparison saying roughly the same thing (which still isn't that any specific percentage of players are in highsec).

Since the numbers won't really tell anything new and interesting, I was mainly wondering about the date to see which way the numbers were heading.

I believe Turbfelds tweet was the source, taken from the Fan Fest presentation.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-06-08 02:09:14 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Post with your frikken main...

I would if I could?

POINT!

LolLolLolLol

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.