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SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-06-08 00:43:23 UTC
Disregard That wrote:

And here I thought that was directly attributable to Boat. Lol


Nah the only thing boat causes is expensive ship losses when I accidentally disconnect from eve for an hour in the middle of one of his fleets.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-06-08 00:44:49 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Disregard That wrote:

And here I thought that was directly attributable to Boat. Lol


Nah the only thing boat causes is expensive ship losses when I accidentally disconnect from eve for an hour in the middle of one of his fleets.

Don't forget storytime.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-06-08 00:45:38 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.


I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but...

In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does.

1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing.

2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed".

3. We shower them with money and free ships.

We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun.

I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness.

Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-06-08 00:54:29 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
BURN THE BOTS


Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of a capsuleer mind! JIHAD!


Lipbite wrote:
What? "EVE is PvP game" concept isn't correct? Can't be. At least not according to this forum.

Seriously - this could explain why game stagnate while CCP prefer to listen its 25% PvP-focused customers instead of real cash cows in high-sec who feel themselves like outcasts while sponsoring FW and null-sec development.


It probably has something to do with:

The player driven economy: 54%

The impact players can have on the universe: 44%

Oh, right, affecting the gameplay of others in a negative way isn't PVP unless it has cool 'splosions.
Olleybear
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2012-06-08 01:12:00 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:

I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but...

In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does.

1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing.

2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed".

3. We shower them with money and free ships.

We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun.

I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness.


*Blink Blink*

Wow...

*Blink*

A Goon post that isn't random incoherent hatred.

*Blink Blink*

*Pinches self to make sure self is awake*

Good post, good plan.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-06-08 01:20:26 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Sci Fi?

Science fiction.

LOL! I know what Sci Fi stands for. I was more answering the OP's question with sarcastic uncertainty. If the majority of players were drawn to the game due to science fiction, it would only make sense to keep marketing in that direction. P
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-06-08 01:28:13 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.


I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case.

No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it.

I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#68 - 2012-06-08 01:29:32 UTC
Zombies
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-06-08 01:29:37 UTC
Olleybear wrote:

*Blink Blink*

Wow...

*Blink*

A Goon post that isn't random incoherent hatred.

*Blink Blink*

*Pinches self to make sure self is awake*

Good post, good plan.


You do realize that 90% of the "Incoherant hatred" is just us making fun of people who see "Goon" next to the posting name and freak the **** out right?
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-06-08 01:30:08 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.


I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case.

No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it.

I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else.

I agree with most of this.

But in Eve, PVE is PVP too.
0ccupy 4-4
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-06-08 01:31:01 UTC
Christopher Dulson wrote:
Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.

Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners.



Maybe people like being around other people when they have bodies.

Maybe people are uncomfortable communicating with someone who could have 1000 alts, all in the alliances he's bad mouthing.

Maybe people don't like being around epeen stroking spergie neckbeards who say they hate everything about them and the way they play.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-06-08 01:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.


I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but...

In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does.

1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing.

2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed".

3. We shower them with money and free ships.

We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun.

I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness.


The rest of that success lies in the yearly Secret Santa.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-06-08 01:36:03 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.


I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case.

No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it.

I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else.

I agree with most of this.

But in Eve, PVE is PVP too.

To a degree yes, as much as one chooses to involve oneself. Mission running for instance can be very self contained after a few initial investments. Moreso if one doesn't sell loot/salvage or LP.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-06-08 01:36:17 UTC
0ccupy 4-4 wrote:
Christopher Dulson wrote:
Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.

Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners.



Maybe people like being around other people when they have bodies.

Maybe people are uncomfortable communicating with someone who could have 1000 alts, all in the alliances he's bad mouthing.

Maybe people don't like being around epeen stroking spergie neckbeards who say they hate everything about them and the way they play.

In today's technological environment, human beings are always more compelling than a coded response.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-06-08 01:37:55 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.


I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case.

No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it.

I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else.

I agree with most of this.

But in Eve, PVE is PVP too.

To a degree yes, as much as one chooses to involve oneself. Mission running for instance can be very self contained after a few initial investments. Moreso if one doesn't sell loot/salvage or LP.

You are wrong. You can be scanned down. You can be aggressed. You can be killed. Running missions.

In fact, if you use drones incorrectly, a savvy player can trick your drones into aggressing them without your command.

If you undock, it's PVP. If you use contracts or the market, it's also PVP.

Ship spinning and closet walking are not, however, PVP.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-06-08 01:41:39 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.


I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case.

No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it.

I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else.

I agree with most of this.

But in Eve, PVE is PVP too.

To a degree yes, as much as one chooses to involve oneself. Mission running for instance can be very self contained after a few initial investments. Moreso if one doesn't sell loot/salvage or LP.

You are wrong. You can be scanned down. You can be aggressed. You can be killed. Running missions.

In fact, if you use drones incorrectly, a savvy player can trick your drones into aggressing them without your command.

If you undock, it's PVP. If you use contracts or the market, it's also PVP.

Ship spinning and closet walking are not, however, PVP.

PvP would be actually engaging in competition with a player in some way shape or form. If your activity is done in complete isolation then you are not PvP'ing. This does not mean that just because you choose to isolate yourself that you cannot be interfered with, but it doesn't make what you are doing a PvP activity.

If doing that activity requires no interaction with anyone else it isn't pvp even if someone could choose to engage in non-consensual pvp with you while doing it.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-06-08 01:45:33 UTC
If a player is scanning for you, and you're in space, you are in a PVP situation. Your mere presence necessitates the competitive activity of scanning you down. Which you compete against, presumably, by hiding in a mission and being quite optimistic about your chances.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-06-08 01:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Mallak Azaria wrote:


The rest of that success lies in the yearly Secret Santa.


My secret Santee got a pimped out faction fit Daredevil and a T2 Vagabond for when he lost the first item in a ball of fire!

The previous year my Santee was BFM and I gave him interdictors! He turned out to be a creepy as hell and got kicked from the alliance.

Welp ok!
stoicfaux
#79 - 2012-06-08 01:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
FFS, the data is easy to read. ~50% of players play solo. ~50% of people subscribed because of the player driven economy. Ergo, ~50% of the player base are bots engaged in RMT.

Once you arrive at the conclusion, you then realize that the survey results need to be normalized to exclude the RMT bots. Meaning, the 25% of the player base interested in PvP translates into "50% of the non-botting population is interested in PvP."

/qed

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-06-08 01:48:42 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
FFS, the data is easy to read. ~50% of players play solo. ~50% of people subscribed because of the player driven economy. Ergo, ~50% of the player base are bots engaged in RMT.

Once you arrive at the conclusion, you then realize that the survey results need to be normalized to exclude the RMT bots. Meaning, the 25% of the player base interested in PvP translates into 50% of the non-botting population is interested in PvP.

/qed

It also seems indicative that 75% of players don't realize they are PVP'ing when they PVE.