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CSM7 Summit Topic: The State of Incarna

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Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-06-07 23:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Mara Rinn wrote:
Don't you think that board games, card games or talking to each other in station is compelling or meaningful content?

What do you want?


We're immortal star pilots given abilities beyond our wildest dreams, and driven by a lust for power on a galactic scale. Watch the intro trailer again next time you boot up your client if you don't believe me. That's the essence of Eve, competition for domination over the opposition, not playing ported-over Facebook games. That's why WiS needs to have meaningful, rewarding, risky content, why it needs to be (if you'll excuse the phrase) "serious business". The idea that we should sit around playing poker and chess fits with the Eve universe about as much as the idea of turning WiS into some sort of Team Fortress 2 comedy hat collection simulator, or giving our ships Hello Kitty paint schemes. The idea that CCP, having spent millions of dollars and years of development working on the Carbon engine, should dedicate further time turning their blood, sweat and tears into features where we can 'chill out in a hot tub' or 'stand around in a featureless room typing to each other' or 'watch a motion captured exotic dancer' is absurd and insulting.

To see what I see WiS as being, watch the Incarna Trailer and remind yourself what CCP thought it should be before they got blinded by monocles and $1000 jeans. Lets go back to that vision.

What I want from WiS is for CCP to turn all the negative publicity from Incarna on its head, by giving us truly challenging, risky, and immersive gameplay. I want to have everything that I normally take for granted in Eve stripped away and have to rethink the way I play. I want to feel vulnerable, denied of my Mega Pulse Lasers and my 1600mm Rolled Tungsten plating, just my character's own two feet and a handful of tools and equipment I can carry with me. I want to appreciate the power that my capsule grants me by having all of that taken away from me every time I step out of it, and then be thrust head-first into the deep end.

I want to be scanning down lost abandoned settlements in dangerous parts of space in an unarmed craft before boarding them on scavenging operations, racing against the clock to secure and recover lost valuable artefacts before I'm discovered. I want Guristas or Angel Cartel pirates, no longer faceless cannon fodder dying in their thousands as I run yet another sanctum or Level 4 mission, but as other individuals searching for me by torchlight in unlit habitation units and corridors because I tripped a security sensor with my portable hacking module 10 minutes ago. I want a parallel network of 'dark' agents, not working for a public corporation in a outpost everyone can see and and handing out endless streams of missions to any pilot who blunders across their path, but basing out of secret, hidden settlements, moving locations to avoid detection and requiring me to go and find them, giving me 'off-the-radar' tasks to complete and rewarding me with items and resources unavailable anywhere else.

I want the dark, cold and harsh universe CCP are so fond of describing to apply just as much to WiS as it does to the spaceships, if not more. I want WiS with teeth.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#162 - 2012-06-07 23:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Scatim Helicon wrote:
To see what I see WiS as being, watch the Incarna Trailer and remind yourself what CCP thought it should be before they got blinded by monocles and $1000 jeans. Lets go back to that vision.


I'll see your single-player captains quarters "vision" and raise you EVE Online: A Future Vision.

What are those people doing at the beginning of that trailer? Standing in an empty room talking to each other.

What comes next? Shooting the other capsuleer in the face.

The two visions are not incompatible.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#163 - 2012-06-07 23:34:17 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I want to be scanning down lost abandoned settlements in dangerous parts of space in an unarmed craft before boarding them on scavenging operations, racing against the clock to secure and recover lost valuable artefacts before I'm discovered. I want Guristas or Angel Cartel pirates, no longer faceless cannon fodder dying in their thousands as I run yet another sanctum or Level 4 mission, but as other individuals searching for me by torchlight in unlit habitation units and corridors because I tripped a security sensor with my portable hacking module 10 minutes ago. I want a parallel network of 'dark' agents, not working for a public corporation in a outpost everyone can see and and handing out endless streams of missions to any pilot who blunders across their path, but basing out of secret, hidden settlements, moving locations to avoid detection and requiring me to go and find them, giving me 'off-the-radar' tasks to complete and rewarding me with items and resources unavailable anywhere else.

I want the dark, cold and harsh universe CCP are so fond of describing to apply just as much to WiS as it does to the spaceships, if not more. I want WiS with teeth.


I want that too.

I want dark gritty world where it is possible for my character to interact with her friends in a social atmosphere, with a feeling of relative safety. Over here behind the shields of our POS we have our hot tub, bar with the exotic dancer, gambling den, clothing shop. Over there we have the abandoned Angel outpost which we can explore "on foot" in competition with other capsuleers and NPCs.

Same universe, same mechanics, different "feel" due to the type of activity undertaken in that specific locale.

What would be more compelling than being able to walk around in a place that is "safe" when you want to get off the grid for a while?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-06-08 06:34:14 UTC
You realise that by 'off-the-grid' I'm talking about secret missions, not going on a holiday, right?

The problem with saying 'lets have all of these things' is that CCP has limited resources and a relatively small team dedicated to implementing WiS content - understandably so, given the events of last year. Time spent on hot tubs and exotic dancers is time not being spent on dark agents and crumbling outposts. Which do you think that CCP staff, already burned by the 'where's the gameplay?' backlash from Incarna, are more likely to want to work on?

Your argument that CCP should spend time on implementing passive gameplay hot tubs and facebook minigames in their 'cold dark harsh universe' is like me arguing to the Call Of Duty devs that they should stop making new ways for me to get shot in the face and instead spend their development resources on a pacifist option where I can spend an evening waving anti-war placards in front of a virtual White House.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#165 - 2012-06-08 06:39:01 UTC
You can actually play the Slay game that was going to be featured in establishments by visiting the Dust space on the PS home.

It is very addictive and fun.

Would love to see this introduced into EVE at last.
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#166 - 2012-06-08 12:22:31 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Don't you think that board games, card games or talking to each other in station is compelling or meaningful content?

What do you want?


We're immortal star pilots given abilities beyond our wildest dreams, and driven by a lust for power on a galactic scale. Watch the intro trailer again next time you boot up your client if you don't believe me. That's the essence of Eve, competition for domination over the opposition, not playing ported-over Facebook games. That's why WiS needs to have meaningful, rewarding, risky content, why it needs to be (if you'll excuse the phrase) "serious business". The idea that we should sit around playing poker and chess fits with the Eve universe about as much as the idea of turning WiS into some sort of Team Fortress 2 comedy hat collection simulator, or giving our ships Hello Kitty paint schemes. The idea that CCP, having spent millions of dollars and years of development working on the Carbon engine, should dedicate further time turning their blood, sweat and tears into features where we can 'chill out in a hot tub' or 'stand around in a featureless room typing to each other' or 'watch a motion captured exotic dancer' is absurd and insulting.

To see what I see WiS as being, watch the Incarna Trailer and remind yourself what CCP thought it should be before they got blinded by monocles and $1000 jeans. Lets go back to that vision.

What I want from WiS is for CCP to turn all the negative publicity from Incarna on its head, by giving us truly challenging, risky, and immersive gameplay. I want to have everything that I normally take for granted in Eve stripped away and have to rethink the way I play. I want to feel vulnerable, denied of my Mega Pulse Lasers and my 1600mm Rolled Tungsten plating, just my character's own two feet and a handful of tools and equipment I can carry with me. I want to appreciate the power that my capsule grants me by having all of that taken away from me every time I step out of it, and then be thrust head-first into the deep end.

I want to be scanning down lost abandoned settlements in dangerous parts of space in an unarmed craft before boarding them on scavenging operations, racing against the clock to secure and recover lost valuable artefacts before I'm discovered. I want Guristas or Angel Cartel pirates, no longer faceless cannon fodder dying in their thousands as I run yet another sanctum or Level 4 mission, but as other individuals searching for me by torchlight in unlit habitation units and corridors because I tripped a security sensor with my portable hacking module 10 minutes ago. I want a parallel network of 'dark' agents, not working for a public corporation in a outpost everyone can see and and handing out endless streams of missions to any pilot who blunders across their path, but basing out of secret, hidden settlements, moving locations to avoid detection and requiring me to go and find them, giving me 'off-the-radar' tasks to complete and rewarding me with items and resources unavailable anywhere else.

I want the dark, cold and harsh universe CCP are so fond of describing to apply just as much to WiS as it does to the spaceships, if not more. I want WiS with teeth.



*CHEERING, WILD APPLAUSE*

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#167 - 2012-06-08 12:40:01 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I want to be scanning down lost abandoned settlements in dangerous parts of space in an unarmed craft before boarding them on scavenging operations, racing against the clock to secure and recover lost valuable artefacts before I'm discovered. …

I want the dark, cold and harsh universe CCP are so fond of describing to apply just as much to WiS as it does to the spaceships, if not more. I want WiS with teeth.


I want that too. But you have to learn to walk before you can run. Before you can have multiple people in a dungeon crawl shooting each other you need to have multiple people in any kind of place at all.

When it comes to funding the further development of Incarna, how happy will most FiS-fans be about paying for WiS that they don't want to use?

What if setting up your own establishment (bar, shop, whatever) cost Aurum/PLEX? That would lead to decorations being available (for CQ or otherwise) through the NeX and equivalent entities: all of these would represent extra funding for the project. Having the tools sorted out to produce a glowing, steaming hot tub with proper lighting and sound effects, appropriate patching for capsuleers to walk around/over and sit in: that's a lot of effort in just getting the 3D modelling tools up to scratch.

This vision of luxury retreats for the super space rich is not incompatible with your desire to pursue the throwaway line about escaping back home through the barrel of your gun. I want that too. I'm just being a little more pragmatic about how to source funding for the further development of Incarna, and at what point in the development process it would be acceptable for Team Avatar to release usable content.

Would you rent an establishment and hire an exotic dancer for an extra PLEX or two a month if you knew that the money was contributing directly to the further development of Incarna?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#168 - 2012-06-08 20:44:23 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Don't you think that board games, card games or talking to each other in station is compelling or meaningful content?

What do you want?


We're immortal star pilots given abilities beyond our wildest dreams, and driven by a lust for power on a galactic scale. Watch the intro trailer again next time you boot up your client if you don't believe me. That's the essence of Eve, competition for domination over the opposition, not playing ported-over Facebook games. That's why WiS needs to have meaningful, rewarding, risky content, why it needs to be (if you'll excuse the phrase) "serious business". The idea that we should sit around playing poker and chess fits with the Eve universe about as much as the idea of turning WiS into some sort of Team Fortress 2 comedy hat collection simulator, or giving our ships Hello Kitty paint schemes.


Nevertheless, there were howls of outrage when CCP took away ship spinning--which, unlike rooms with multiple people in them, features no multiplayer content whatsoever. At least a room where people can talk allows for people with a lust for power on a galactic scale to plot, plan, negotiate, argue, etc. If you pod another toon in space, he wakes up somewhere, because he's an immortal demigod. If you politically maneuver his alliance out of a coalition, you've done far more damage with nothing more or other than words--but nothing irrecoverable, because he's an immortal demigod.

As Mara points out, a room where multiple avatars can interact is relatively easy to roll out, and fairly true to CCP's longtime vision of providing a stage on which players can interact with each other, and leaving them to generate the content. Also, it's not mutually exclusive with anything else. Every corporation has meetings, and every building has break rooms. That doesn't mean that nobody ever works there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see where CCP goes with the exploration content, which has always been a cool intersection of PvE and PvP. I'm not averse to their creating content for WiS. But the original CCP vision for EvE was to create space (ha!) and set us loose in it. There's no particular reason why WiS must be different.

Yes, there should be a hook, but "this is a break room" and "this is a meeting room" and "this is a public area" and "this is where you get to make your hologram glower imperiously at the DUST bunnies gathered below" are all hooks. Extras like card games are, if nothing else, immersive, frequently multiplayer, and promote verisimiltude. The stakes on a game could be high indeed. At worst, though, they're ship spinning, and EvE players like their ship spinning.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2012-06-08 23:36:15 UTC
I do like how now it's apparently easy for CCP to just roll out an environment where multiple avatars can interact when 2 years gave us a single environment with a single avatar that caused people's GPU's to go apeshit simply for being open.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-06-09 00:22:27 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Nevertheless, there were howls of outrage when CCP took away ship spinning--which, unlike rooms with multiple people in them, features no multiplayer content whatsoever.

It was, however, spaceship content, and the outrage was more down to CCP removing existing content for no particular reason, replacing it with the abomination that is Captain's Quarters, and having the gall to call it an expansion.

There's a difference between spending hundreds of additional man-hours designing 'casual' features, and simply keeping around the ones you already have.

Quote:
At least a room where people can talk allows for people with a lust for power on a galactic scale to plot, plan, negotiate, argue, etc.

These things already exist, the people doing the plotting and negotiating in Eve are perfectly capable of opening a private chat in-game or using an IRC client or sendng PMs on a forum. The only thing this offers is the opportunity to marry them to some pretty graphics, and 'pretty graphics with no new content' is the exact opposite of what WiS needs to provide.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see where CCP goes with the exploration content, which has always been a cool intersection of PvE and PvP. I'm not averse to their creating content for WiS. But the original CCP vision for EvE was to create space (ha!) and set us loose in it. There's no particular reason why WiS must be different.

The vision for Eve is providing players tools with which to shape their own storylines, but you have to actually provide the tools in the first place, not just the space and some pretty graphics. Like I said earlier in the thread, dumping a bunch of avatars in an empty room with nothing tangible to do but stare at some themepark content won't result in anything interesting or emergent appearing, otherwise we'd be seeing compelling, emergent, player driven gameplay sprouting up from Second Life or Sims Online too.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#171 - 2012-06-09 00:53:25 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
I do like how now it's apparently easy for CCP to just roll out an environment where multiple avatars can interact when 2 years gave us a single environment with a single avatar that caused people's GPU's to go apeshit simply for being open.


Exactly. They need content-light stuff rolled out first to allow experimentation with strategies for fitting multiple high detail avatars in the same space. They might have tested internally but previous attempts at testing internally have shown that the moment the thing goes to production a dozen problems appear. The sooner something is available to test, the sooner it can be tested by the people who are most likely to have problems.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#172 - 2012-06-09 03:02:08 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:

We're immortal star pilots given abilities beyond our wildest dreams, and driven by a lust for power on a galactic scale. Watch the intro trailer again next time you boot up your client if you don't believe me. That's the essence of Eve, competition for domination over the opposition, not playing ported-over Facebook games. That's why WiS needs to have meaningful, rewarding, risky content, why it needs to be (if you'll excuse the phrase) "serious business". The idea that we should sit around playing poker and chess fits with the Eve universe about as much as the idea of turning WiS into some sort of Team Fortress 2 comedy hat collection simulator, or giving our ships Hello Kitty paint schemes. The idea that CCP, having spent millions of dollars and years of development working on the Carbon engine, should dedicate further time turning their blood, sweat and tears into features where we can 'chill out in a hot tub' or stand around in a featureless room typing to each other'


Excuse me, I have a call on the line for you from reality:

For reasons glaringly obvious to anyone not in goonswarm, and probably quite a few people in it: we're more likely to get those things you're bitching about first.

Why?

Two reasons:

First, people did ***** and scream about monocles and jeans and now CCP is going to be reluctant to dump the sort of funds needed to produce your vision of WiS into WiS.

Second: those things are easy to port in and would cost CCP little time and money. This would at least get SOME content into the game without breaking the bank.


Scatim Helicon wrote:
or 'watch a motion captured exotic dancer' is absurd and insulting.


On that one, you might want to compare notes with some members of your own alliance, who seemed to be very much in favor of this item being added last time we talked.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#173 - 2012-06-09 06:56:26 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
(...)
The vision for Eve is providing players tools with which to shape their own storylines, but you have to actually provide the tools in the first place, not just the space and some pretty graphics. Like I said earlier in the thread, dumping a bunch of avatars in an empty room with nothing tangible to do but stare at some themepark content won't result in anything interesting or emergent appearing, otherwise we'd be seeing compelling, emergent, player driven gameplay sprouting up from Second Life or Sims Online too.


I alrady suggested elsewhere the possiiblity to create and deliver a SDK (software development kit) or at least a list of off-the-shelve tools that allowed players to create WiS content, test it on a modded client, and then submit to CCP for TTP review and eventual integration ingame.

Is EVE online about creating your own T-shirt, a jumpsuit or a wedding gown? Is it not?

What is a "sandbox"?

Human avatars can be very art intensive. Imagine what if people wanted to have their own station, their own house, or they wanted to go to a holiday resort in a tropical planet.

Imagine if people started feeling that EVE is an actula Sci-fi universe, which they can shape in the cosmetic details, w/o touching the Holy Cow of the griefing for free mechanics of FiS.

Imagine that people started building an universe in EVE, rather than destroy it. imagine if 1,000,000 people paid EVE subscription to build a home and break from the grim dystopia.

would EVE be the same? Better? Worst? Just different?

What is EVE about? About how people sucks and EVE players suck twice? Or is it about freedom to be a different person, an immortal demigod roaming the stars for profit and a Goal...? YOUR goal, not CCP's, the Goons', nullsec's not anyone else...
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#174 - 2012-06-09 11:42:16 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
First, people did ***** and scream about monocles and jeans and now CCP is going to be reluctant to dump the sort of funds needed to produce your vision of WiS into WiS.

People screamed because CCP had spent literally years of work and millions of dollars/euros of our subscription money and all we saw as the result was a hopelessly limited Captain's Quarters and the NeX store. If we'd had monocles and jeans alongside meaningful game content (like the abandoned outpost exploration and 'off-the-radar' missions talked about earlier) then Incarna would have been reasonably well received. Instead we were promised the moon and the stars by CCP and we got a big steaming turd dumped on our keyboards because all the talk of actual gameplay fell by the wayside before release.

That's why CCP has taken a sensible approach post-Incarna to the whole project - get back to the drawing board with a limited team, spend the time to figure out ways to make meaningful, fun gameplay within the engine, and then start working towards making it a reality. Resources will come for WiS when there's a vision and a structure for making it a reality that the company and the playerbase can get behind (rather than the whole project being driven by management-level flights of fantasy as happened with Incarna), and not before.

Quote:
Second: those things are easy to port in and would cost CCP little time and money. This would at least get SOME content into the game without breaking the bank.

If they don't add any gameplay that contributes towards Eve's core concepts, it doesn't matter whether it costs a lot of money or not.

Your argument is like saying 'I need to buy a new car, but I can't afford a new car, so I'll just buy a steering wheel and sit on my couch with it in my hands because that way I've got some 'car content' without breaking the bank'.

(obligatory 'It Is A Car Analogy' comment goes here)

Quote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
or 'watch a motion captured exotic dancer' is absurd and insulting.


On that one, you might want to compare notes with some members of your own alliance, who seemed to be very much in favor of this item being added last time we talked.

Its almost as though a 9000-strong alliance can include individuals with differing opinions Shocked. A dumb idea is a dumb idea, whether a member of my alliance expresses it or some NPC corp alt.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
RAP ACTION HERO
#175 - 2012-06-09 15:23:06 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
(...)
The vision for Eve is providing players tools with which to shape their own storylines, but you have to actually provide the tools in the first place, not just the space and some pretty graphics. Like I said earlier in the thread, dumping a bunch of avatars in an empty room with nothing tangible to do but stare at some themepark content won't result in anything interesting or emergent appearing, otherwise we'd be seeing compelling, emergent, player driven gameplay sprouting up from Second Life or Sims Online too.


I alrady suggested elsewhere the possiiblity to create and deliver a SDK (software development kit) or at least a list of off-the-shelve tools that allowed players to create WiS content, test it on a modded client, and then submit to CCP for TTP review and eventual integration ingame.

Is EVE online about creating your own T-shirt, a jumpsuit or a wedding gown? Is it not?

What is a "sandbox"?

Human avatars can be very art intensive. Imagine what if people wanted to have their own station, their own house, or they wanted to go to a holiday resort in a tropical planet.

Imagine if people started feeling that EVE is an actula Sci-fi universe, which they can shape in the cosmetic details, w/o touching the Holy Cow of the griefing for free mechanics of FiS.

Imagine that people started building an universe in EVE, rather than destroy it. imagine if 1,000,000 people paid EVE subscription to build a home and break from the grim dystopia.

would EVE be the same? Better? Worst? Just different?

What is EVE about? About how people sucks and EVE players suck twice? Or is it about freedom to be a different person, an immortal demigod roaming the stars for profit and a Goal...? YOUR goal, not CCP's, the Goons', nullsec's not anyone else...


and i've already suggested that there would be so many freaks putting out so much crap i fear for the well being fo the eve art team. it would end up taking more effort in dealing with 99.9999999% of every freak who's ever had a horrible idea, then there would be the troll items.
imagine all that second space crap infesting the glorious fis core of eve like a carbuncular tumor, jesus christ keep eve clean keep eve EVE.

vitoc erryday
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#176 - 2012-06-09 19:02:26 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
(...)
The vision for Eve is providing players tools with which to shape their own storylines, but you have to actually provide the tools in the first place, not just the space and some pretty graphics. Like I said earlier in the thread, dumping a bunch of avatars in an empty room with nothing tangible to do but stare at some themepark content won't result in anything interesting or emergent appearing, otherwise we'd be seeing compelling, emergent, player driven gameplay sprouting up from Second Life or Sims Online too.


I alrady suggested elsewhere the possiiblity to create and deliver a SDK (software development kit) or at least a list of off-the-shelve tools that allowed players to create WiS content, test it on a modded client, and then submit to CCP for TTP review and eventual integration ingame.

Is EVE online about creating your own T-shirt, a jumpsuit or a wedding gown? Is it not?

What is a "sandbox"?

Human avatars can be very art intensive. Imagine what if people wanted to have their own station, their own house, or they wanted to go to a holiday resort in a tropical planet.

Imagine if people started feeling that EVE is an actula Sci-fi universe, which they can shape in the cosmetic details, w/o touching the Holy Cow of the griefing for free mechanics of FiS.

Imagine that people started building an universe in EVE, rather than destroy it. imagine if 1,000,000 people paid EVE subscription to build a home and break from the grim dystopia.

would EVE be the same? Better? Worst? Just different?

What is EVE about? About how people sucks and EVE players suck twice? Or is it about freedom to be a different person, an immortal demigod roaming the stars for profit and a Goal...? YOUR goal, not CCP's, the Goons', nullsec's not anyone else...


and i've already suggested that there would be so many freaks putting out so much crap i fear for the well being fo the eve art team. it would end up taking more effort in dealing with 99.9999999% of every freak who's ever had a horrible idea, then there would be the troll items.
imagine all that second space crap infesting the glorious fis core of eve like a carbuncular tumor, jesus christ keep eve clean keep eve EVE.


CCP can trim easily the quality of the content through the dificulty of the modding procedure. If they just release a Maya export tool requiring a very specific file format, they're going to leave out every **** and prick who doesn't knows how to use or setup Maya, and the remaining TTP pricks will be a more controllable.

i wonder if the "design a starship" contest could be of use as background for the concept of allowing players to mod EVE.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#177 - 2012-06-09 19:32:14 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
(...)
The vision for Eve is providing players tools with which to shape their own storylines, but you have to actually provide the tools in the first place, not just the space and some pretty graphics. Like I said earlier in the thread, dumping a bunch of avatars in an empty room with nothing tangible to do but stare at some themepark content won't result in anything interesting or emergent appearing, otherwise we'd be seeing compelling, emergent, player driven gameplay sprouting up from Second Life or Sims Online too.


I alrady suggested elsewhere the possiiblity to create and deliver a SDK (software development kit) or at least a list of off-the-shelve tools that allowed players to create WiS content, test it on a modded client, and then submit to CCP for TTP review and eventual integration ingame.

Is EVE online about creating your own T-shirt, a jumpsuit or a wedding gown? Is it not?

What is a "sandbox"?

Human avatars can be very art intensive. Imagine what if people wanted to have their own station, their own house, or they wanted to go to a holiday resort in a tropical planet.

Imagine if people started feeling that EVE is an actula Sci-fi universe, which they can shape in the cosmetic details, w/o touching the Holy Cow of the griefing for free mechanics of FiS.

Imagine that people started building an universe in EVE, rather than destroy it. imagine if 1,000,000 people paid EVE subscription to build a home and break from the grim dystopia.

would EVE be the same? Better? Worst? Just different?

What is EVE about? About how people sucks and EVE players suck twice? Or is it about freedom to be a different person, an immortal demigod roaming the stars for profit and a Goal...? YOUR goal, not CCP's, the Goons', nullsec's not anyone else...


and i've already suggested that there would be so many freaks putting out so much crap i fear for the well being fo the eve art team. it would end up taking more effort in dealing with 99.9999999% of every freak who's ever had a horrible idea, then there would be the troll items.
imagine all that second space crap infesting the glorious fis core of eve like a carbuncular tumor, jesus christ keep eve clean keep eve EVE.


CCP can trim easily the quality of the content through the dificulty of the modding procedure. If they just release a Maya export tool requiring a very specific file format, they're going to leave out every **** and prick who doesn't knows how to use or setup Maya, and the remaining TTP pricks will be a more controllable.

i wonder if the "design a starship" contest could be of use as background for the concept of allowing players to mod EVE.


I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "Easy, cheap, and quick. Choose two." right? This phrase applies to the quality control involved in filtering out bad ideas. Simply using Maya to design WiS stuff won't filter out bad ideas, at all. Imagine how many gallente colored dicks will be submitted if CCP ever allowed players to create their own content.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#178 - 2012-06-09 19:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


CCP can trim easily the quality of the content through the dificulty of the modding procedure. If they just release a Maya export tool requiring a very specific file format, they're going to leave out every **** and prick who doesn't knows how to use or setup Maya, and the remaining TTP pricks will be a more controllable.

i wonder if the "design a starship" contest could be of use as background for the concept of allowing players to mod EVE.


I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "Easy, cheap, and quick. Choose two." right? This phrase applies to the quality control involved in filtering out bad ideas. Simply using Maya to design WiS stuff won't filter out bad ideas, at all. Imagine how many gallente colored dicks will be submitted if CCP ever allowed players to create their own content.


The use of professional tools will just reduce the amount of pricks. I did not said that would limit bad ideas, yet would limit the amount of people with a short TTP that would be able to as much as submit.

Also CCP can limit what is to be designed -say, there's an open slot for a new couch, anything that is not a couch will be ignored and the offenders will be banned from submiting anything else for 6 months.

Paint it a hard earned privilege. Maybe ask money for it. There are may ways to exchange ego for art assets and save your own art development resources...
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#179 - 2012-06-09 21:21:09 UTC
With the idea that I suggested - that people be allowed to design station INTERIORS - then I don't see why TTP is a big deal. If people want to make their own stations into Penis designs, more power to them. All we have to do is to let any subsequent owners "reconfigure" the station to put in their own design.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#180 - 2012-06-11 02:23:30 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
With the idea that I suggested - that people be allowed to design station INTERIORS - then I don't see why TTP is a big deal. If people want to make their own stations into ***** designs, more power to them. All we have to do is to let any subsequent owners "reconfigure" the station to put in their own design.



Sadly, there are quite a few people in this game that can't be trusted to hang wallpaper, let alone design a station interior. Seriously, they would try and draw cocks with cables if they had to.

Personally, I see nothing stupid about the mo-cap strippers. It got ToR more pre orders than any other in game bonus, do you know it'd be popular.