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Does the 'PvPers are Sociopaths' argument bother anyone else?
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Svarek
#181 - 2012-06-07 03:40:50 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
People see gankers ganking in high-sec and they automatically think of this guy.


Hey, look, it's granddad.

Whoops.
Horus Ernaga
Doomheim
#182 - 2012-06-07 05:13:33 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Horus Ernaga wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Knus'lar wrote:
I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.


No, because those people clearly don't know the definition of one.

Knus'lar wrote:
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?


Yes.


Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely.


You might, but that's a no for me.


Your right that was to much a a generalization. I should say some people. Sorry.
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#183 - 2012-06-07 20:52:10 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.

I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...

We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant...
I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.


Am I the only one who wouldnt go murdering IRL if there were suddenly no consequences? That is just not something I would EVER do. But in game i a perfectly intent to blow up internet pixels
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#184 - 2012-06-07 20:57:01 UTC
Quote:
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...

We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant...
I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.


Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game.

That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#185 - 2012-06-07 21:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kijo Rikki
Knus'lar wrote:
Diablo Ex wrote:
To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.

I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...

We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant...
I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.


Am I the only one who wouldnt go murdering IRL if there were suddenly no consequences? That is just not something I would EVER do. But in game i a perfectly intent to blow up internet pixels



I'd do it if, when it was over, the victim stood up and said, 'man, that was terrifying! I nearly pooped my pants!' and then I go, "man, that was the coolest thing I've done all day....ok my turn!"

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#186 - 2012-06-07 21:02:38 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:


You have a link where someone who was ganked (NPC alt's don't count) saying flat out that anyone who ganks or does PvP is a sociopath?


I can't tell if he was ganked or is an alt, but from here.

MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem
If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem
If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.

As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA.

If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether?


Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberately provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. The game itself has become a real-life tool to project your ill-intent. And I maintain that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that.

The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec.

I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this very thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, and sociopaths in real life, quite ironic.


You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#187 - 2012-06-07 21:13:06 UTC
Knus'lar wrote:


You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.


Clearly they enjoy blowing up spaceships because they are violent psychopaths who butcher kittens and eat the corpses of children.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#188 - 2012-06-07 21:13:25 UTC
Gitanmaxx wrote:
stop trying to defend yourself by calling yourselves PvPers.

PvP means player vs player, not being a d-bag.



Well....



But seriosuly, it depends on how you look at it. If someone blows up my ship, Are they a d-bag or am i too emotionally attached? Think about that for me
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#189 - 2012-06-07 21:19:13 UTC
I say 'both.'

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#190 - 2012-06-07 21:23:28 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
I say 'both.'


I dont know why. I say 'Bolth'. (Get it?)

But i dont know man, am I a douche for blowing up a hulk that has no tank and isnt aligned? I dont think so. "Dont make your lack of planning into my emergency." is one of my favorite quotes. Really no one should ever die to high sec gankers. But they make themselves a false sense of security and get too attached to their ships. That isnt the ganker's fault
Olleybear
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#191 - 2012-06-07 22:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Olleybear
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Ex wrote:
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...


Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game.

That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin.


The point Diablo Ex is making is valid.

Step out of your 1st world, plentifull food and resources point of view for 1 second and take a look around. Ever seen news video here in the US of Black Friday?

This lady pepper sprayed shoppers so she could get something she wanted to buy that was in limited supply.

That is just one real world example of exactly the kind of behavior we are all talking about. Look up more black friday tales and see how quickly people let loose with the crazy and this is in the USA.

Want more examples of the crazy?

How about these cops that shot victims after the Katrina hurricane hit New Orleans.

This also happened in the USA. Am I opening everyones eyes yet?

These are not isolated incidents of a few crackpot fringe group numpties. These are your neighbors. Your neighbors play video games and some of them may even play Eve.

We are just a few meals away from anarchy. Keep thinking that the behavior of some people in game, aka "Moar tears", are just your normal everyday nice guy. The only thing keeping these psychopaths from acting out more aggressively in real life is their bellies are full and their minds are entertained.

* cited ranger 1 instead of Diablo Ex, fixed *

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#192 - 2012-06-07 23:00:34 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Knus'lar wrote:


You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.


Clearly they enjoy blowing up spaceships because they are violent psychopaths who butcher kittens and eat the corpses of children.


What kind of children are we talking about here?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#193 - 2012-06-07 23:02:38 UTC
Olleybear wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...


Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game.

That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin.


The point Ranger 1 is making is valid.

Step out of your 1st world, plentifull food and resources point of view for 1 second and take a look around. Ever seen news video here in the US of Black Friday?

This lady pepper sprayed shoppers so she could get something she wanted to buy that was in limited supply.

That is just one real world example of exactly the kind of behavior we are all talking about. Look up more black friday tales and see how quickly people let loose with the crazy and this is in the USA.

Want more examples of the crazy?

How about these cops that shot victims after the Katrina hurricane hit New Orleans.

This also happened in the USA. Am I opening everyones eyes yet?

These are not isolated incidents of a few crackpot fringe group numpties. These are your neighbors. Your neighbors play video games and some of them may even play Eve.

We are just a few meals away from anarchy. Keep thinking that the behavior of some people in game, aka "Moar tears", are just your normal everyday nice guy. The only thing keeping these psychopaths from acting out more aggressively in real life is their bellies are full and their minds are entertained.


Yeah I kinda doubt crazy soccer moms who are trying to get the latest ZuZu pet for little Timmy are Eve online players.

I don't even leave the house on Black Friday. I haven't seen a sale yet that beats careful year round shopping from Amazon: And I can have them wrap it and deliver it to my door.
Ilandrin Yona
Doomheim
#194 - 2012-06-07 23:30:17 UTC


Quote:
THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!!


Here in lies what I believe may be the crux of the issue. For some people Eve (and other MMOs) are more than just games. They are virtual worlds in which to live virtual lives. These are the people who get so upset when bad stuff happens to them in game.

Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game.

... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... .......

My Eve Biography:

Ilandrin Yona
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#195 - 2012-06-07 23:32:53 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Knus'lar wrote:


You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.


Clearly they enjoy blowing up spaceships because they are violent psychopaths who butcher kittens and eat the corpses of children.


What kind of children are we talking about here?


The ones that taste good? (All of them)

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#196 - 2012-06-07 23:33:21 UTC
Ilandrin Yona wrote:


Quote:
THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!!

Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game.


Sucks to be them, I suppose.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#197 - 2012-06-07 23:51:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...

We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant...
I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.


Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game.

That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin.


However his first point sticks perfectly with average Eve player state of mind : "If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are..."

And there are a lot in this game that unfortunately don't really make difference with reality, should I remind you some kid's video with threats, or IG insults because you're German, Black, Chinese and so on?
Should I also remind you some sad episode about fan fest 2012?

You might no want to see it or admit it, but it's there.

brb
Syndrea Caedrion
Doomheim
#198 - 2012-06-07 23:57:24 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.

I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...

We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant...
I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.


I love intellectually honest people who can see through all the BS straight down to the core. One of the best posts I've read in a long time.

They somehow managed to get every freak and creep in the universe in this one game, and then somehow managed to let them take it over, and then they somehow managed to stick us right smack in the middle.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#199 - 2012-06-08 00:50:33 UTC
Ilandrin Yona wrote:


Quote:
THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!!


Here in lies what I believe may be the crux of the issue. For some people Eve (and other MMOs) are more than just games. They are virtual worlds in which to live virtual lives. These are the people who get so upset when bad stuff happens to them in game.

Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game.


Seek therapy. This isn't a troll post or a joke post, or me ******* with you.

If you are using Eve as a "Virtual world" to live out a "Virtual Life" to escape reality and it is "Not just a game to you" then you need to seek Therapy.

And bear in mind I say that knowing the standard American bias against therapy (Thanks Reagan). There is nothing wrong with getting therapy, and there is not a person on this earth so well adjusted throughout the entirety of their life that they couldn't benefit from talking with an impartial someone about their problems.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#200 - 2012-06-08 00:52:14 UTC
Syndrea Caedrion wrote:
Diablo Ex wrote:
To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.

I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...

We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant...
I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.


I love intellectually honest people who can see through all the BS straight down to the core. One of the best posts I've read in a long time.


I think I'll wait till an accredited psychologist chimes in rather than assume "I'm in the military, i watched folk" guy is in any way correct in summing up the whole of the human psyche in one pat paragraph. Thanks.