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Warfare & Tactics

 
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First Impression of Faction Warfare -- post inferno patch

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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#401 - 2012-06-07 13:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Sokor Loro wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


cmon now, the lady really doth protest too much.

Also, you had time to accrue 150k lp and was still going strong at 4am in the morning although for some reason had changed from the cnh to an afk plexing ship for reasons that really arnt clear. All this time you were presumably not pvping in nullsec. Unless you were and thats why you were in an afk ship.

Either way, you call it structured pvp in null, i call it infrequent. Both add up to the same thing, days of boredom. Get ready for that in low sec as fw becomes even harder for new pilots to get a foothold as the isk supplies stagnate for the losing side and those who do want to dip their toe into fw are met with insurmountable ship replacement costs (assuming they are pvping regularly) or are forever doomed to sit in minor plexes in t1 frigs/dessies.

This might be your null sec tinted vision of fw but even if they suck at pvp, id still like the caldari to be able to afford to fly nice ships even if we smash their sov as its in my best interests.


I'm not sure what the first paragraph is referring to :/

And it changes all the time. While in nullsec I've never soley played EVE as a video game; you're right, it is somewhat infrequent. I hop on battlefield3 and if a jabber ping goes out, see whats up. The level of communication and organization within our alliance and with other allied alliances lets us play like that. We're attempting to bring the same level of meta-game communication to not only our FW alliance, but also our entire militia. It will double the effectiveness of the militia when the plan gets up to 100%. And, as for action, recently we've been getting hours long brawls in Delve with the entire southern bloc, several times a day. And it's been amazing and epic.

As for affordability, we will always have free thrashers/rifters/griffins. If I have to fund it personally, I will; but I doubt it will ever come to that. We are also looking to subsidize cruisers for people to have more access to them. But, as you said, if your faction is getting massacred you can't make much money. Ideally the market will equalize. It ultimately comes down to CCP coming up with a balance between penalties to encourage the taking of more systems, while simultaneously giving enough benefits that someone can reasonably afford to fly the battlecruiser they always wanted.


Not everyone has tech moons to fund their fw activities. So really all you are doing here is bragging. You are basically saying 'let them eat cake'.

I have to pay for my own ships. I think i can speak for almost 100% of the rest of militia pilots on this one.

The militia as a whole wont work like you want it too, not without making it into the same thing as null sec. If that happens expect to spend more time on bf3.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#402 - 2012-06-07 14:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Nave Drallig wrote:
oh and X Gal fondl has run into Qcats multiple times with us winning some and you winning some. actually we were behind that cap ambush that took out those pizza caps.
Thank you for helping us prove you guys run plexes in **** fit ships so that Bolster and Mutnin can quit saying you don't.

Most of us (Gallente FW) would rather do something else than fight for occupancy in backwater systems against guys like you in sh**fit ships that have no intention of fighting. Your e-peen waving about "Gals too lazy to plex" blah blah blah bs is now null and void. Take a home system or two and then start waving it ok?

Edit: GF last night http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13591715
Sokor Loro
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#403 - 2012-06-07 16:32:11 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Not everyone has tech moons to fund their fw activities. So really all you are doing here is bragging. You are basically saying 'let them eat cake'.

I have to pay for my own ships. I think i can speak for almost 100% of the rest of militia pilots on this one.

The militia as a whole wont work like you want it too, not without making it into the same thing as null sec. If that happens expect to spend more time on bf3.


We don't pay for the free ships with tech, we pay out of our own wallets. We got a generous donation to begin, and the more experienced players have contributed just as much to help out the new/poor guys; and will continue to do so. Running missions/ratting/trading on an alt for an hour or so can pay for well over the cost of losing a thrasher roam...so we're happy to do it. They can gorge on cake for all I care. I'm sorry you have to worry about where the cost of your next ship comes from; I'm not sorry our guys don't.

We don't want to make the militia work in a certain way, we want it to communicate and be on the same page. Jabber is a great tool that can possibly utilitzed to do that. FW is nothing like, and won't be anything like, nullsec. FW is fun because there is constantly a high concentration of people in one relatively small area going for the same objectives that you can shoot at. It's amazing for roams, camps, what have you. Nullsec is where the big epic fleet battles take place, and that's amazing as well...just infrequent, as you pointed out.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#404 - 2012-06-07 18:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Sokor Loro wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Not everyone has tech moons to fund their fw activities. So really all you are doing here is bragging. You are basically saying 'let them eat cake'.

I have to pay for my own ships. I think i can speak for almost 100% of the rest of militia pilots on this one.

The militia as a whole wont work like you want it too, not without making it into the same thing as null sec. If that happens expect to spend more time on bf3.


We don't pay for the free ships with tech, we pay out of our own wallets. We got a generous donation to begin, and the more experienced players have contributed just as much to help out the new/poor guys; and will continue to do so. Running missions/ratting/trading on an alt for an hour or so can pay for well over the cost of losing a thrasher roam...so we're happy to do it. They can gorge on cake for all I care. I'm sorry you have to worry about where the cost of your next ship comes from; I'm not sorry our guys don't.

We don't want to make the militia work in a certain way, we want it to communicate and be on the same page. Jabber is a great tool that can possibly utilitzed to do that. FW is nothing like, and won't be anything like, nullsec. FW is fun because there is constantly a high concentration of people in one relatively small area going for the same objectives that you can shoot at. It's amazing for roams, camps, what have you. Nullsec is where the big epic fleet battles take place, and that's amazing as well...just infrequent, as you pointed out.


The fact your guys dont pay for their ships is irrelevant. The fact that everyone else does is of critical importance.

You have repeatedly missed the point of militia and how its always generating a good amount of pvp even when people are complaining about quiet times. Basically you are still operating like a null-drone living on handouts. Thats not how anyone else does it or even slightly what they want i would imagine.

I hope you eventually crush you opponents until they are incapable of representing even the slightest threat. What you are hoping for is no different to say joining a game of bf3, but your team has all unlocks automatically while the other team has starter kit and a quarter of the numbers. Deny people the ability to make decent isk on one side of the battle and this is what it basically will be.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#405 - 2012-06-07 18:26:05 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Not everyone has tech moons to fund their fw activities. So really all you are doing here is bragging. You are basically saying 'let them eat cake'.

I have to pay for my own ships. I think i can speak for almost 100% of the rest of militia pilots on this one.

The militia as a whole wont work like you want it too, not without making it into the same thing as null sec. If that happens expect to spend more time on bf3.


We don't pay for the free ships with tech, we pay out of our own wallets. We got a generous donation to begin, and the more experienced players have contributed just as much to help out the new/poor guys; and will continue to do so. Running missions/ratting/trading on an alt for an hour or so can pay for well over the cost of losing a thrasher roam...so we're happy to do it. They can gorge on cake for all I care. I'm sorry you have to worry about where the cost of your next ship comes from; I'm not sorry our guys don't.

We don't want to make the militia work in a certain way, we want it to communicate and be on the same page. Jabber is a great tool that can possibly utilitzed to do that. FW is nothing like, and won't be anything like, nullsec. FW is fun because there is constantly a high concentration of people in one relatively small area going for the same objectives that you can shoot at. It's amazing for roams, camps, what have you. Nullsec is where the big epic fleet battles take place, and that's amazing as well...just infrequent, as you pointed out.


The fact your guys dont pay for their ships is irrelevant. The fact that everyone else does is of critical importance.

You have repeatedly missed the point of militia and how its always generating a good amount of pvp even when people are complaining about quiet times. Basically you are still operating like a null-drone living on handouts. Thats not how anyone else does it or even slightly what they want i would imagine.

I hope you eventually crush you opponents until they are incapable of representing even the slightest threat. What you are hoping for is no different to say joining a game of bf3, but your team has all unlocks automatically while the other team has starter kit and a quarter of the numbers. Deny people the ability to make decent isk on one side of the battle and this is what it basically will be.


War is about who destroys the most resources first.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#406 - 2012-06-07 18:50:44 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

War is about who destroys the most resources first.


An ending war is. But this is a game. In other games you can just start a new round. Not so in this one so destroying an enemy outright is ill advised. Its not complicated. You guys cant be this 'tarded?
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#407 - 2012-06-07 19:01:05 UTC
Lots of people on both sides don't get this and yes they are all mentally challenged.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

An ending war is. But this is a game. In other games you can just start a new round. Not so in this one so destroying an enemy outright is ill advised. Its not complicated. You guys cant be this 'tarded?

nom nom
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#408 - 2012-06-07 19:09:49 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:

War is about who destroys the most resources first.


An ending war is. But this is a game. In other games you can just start a new round. Not so in this one so destroying an enemy outright is ill advised. Its not complicated. You guys cant be this 'tarded?



There's always someone to fight. This is a game of never ending targets. Crush one completely and move on. The only problem is if you crush and do not decide to move on.


Its not a 'tarded reasoning. Its legit. By the time the second target is crushed the first has came back.

FW is a cycle.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Sokor Loro
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#409 - 2012-06-07 19:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sokor Loro
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


The fact your guys dont pay for their ships is irrelevant. The fact that everyone else does is of critical importance.

You have repeatedly missed the point of militia and how its always generating a good amount of pvp even when people are complaining about quiet times. Basically you are still operating like a null-drone living on handouts. Thats not how anyone else does it or even slightly what they want i would imagine.

I hope you eventually crush you opponents until they are incapable of representing even the slightest threat. What you are hoping for is no different to say joining a game of bf3, but your team has all unlocks automatically while the other team has starter kit and a quarter of the numbers. Deny people the ability to make decent isk on one side of the battle and this is what it basically will be.


We are at T1 and the minmatar are at T4...WE are the ones being denied the ability to make isk in the warzone. As that balances out people will be able to plex for good income and afford to fly the ships they want. Right now they can't, particularly the new players. Thus the free t1 ships (although they'll always be available). The minmatar forced the amarr into the same position you're worried about, and pvp still occured. We like to think we've made a difference so far, but our sudden appearance isn't going to suddenly flip the entire warzone and crush the minmatar. And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.
Jones Bones
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#410 - 2012-06-07 19:26:31 UTC
Winmatar are breaking my Frigate and Dessie backbone. I am the 99%.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#411 - 2012-06-07 19:28:11 UTC
Sokor Loro wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


The fact your guys dont pay for their ships is irrelevant. The fact that everyone else does is of critical importance.

You have repeatedly missed the point of militia and how its always generating a good amount of pvp even when people are complaining about quiet times. Basically you are still operating like a null-drone living on handouts. Thats not how anyone else does it or even slightly what they want i would imagine.

I hope you eventually crush you opponents until they are incapable of representing even the slightest threat. What you are hoping for is no different to say joining a game of bf3, but your team has all unlocks automatically while the other team has starter kit and a quarter of the numbers. Deny people the ability to make decent isk on one side of the battle and this is what it basically will be.


We are at T1 and the minmatar are at T4...WE are the ones being denied the ability to make isk in the warzone. As that balances out people will be able to plex for good income and afford to fly the ships they want. Right now they can't, particularly the new players. Thus the free t1 ships (although they'll always be available). The minmatar forced the amarr into the same position you're worried about, and pvp still occured. We like to think we've made a difference so far, but our sudden appearance isn't going to suddenly flip the entire warzone and crush the minmatar. And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.


End of the day you have to have a bit of faith in the game system CCP designed for FW 2.0. I personally believe it has a fair degree of built in balance from the offensive/defensive plexing dynamic and the reality that as a faction is more territorially-successful it becomes increasingly difficult to defend its holdings. I think balanced state of the thing is with a 50/50 occupation either side and the tendency (all things being equal) will be that balance resets. When one side is dominating territorially then the built-in bias to the system (no lps for defensive plexing) will drag it back towards the centre. Hence it will take a lot of hard work and sustained effort to completely crush one side (and keep them crushed).

On the topic of Fweddit I think you guys are playing in the right spirit and have been fun to fight. If you've brought anything to the warzone its enthusiasm and a can do attitude that contrasted massively with the doom and gloom expressed by the old amarrian guard on the run up to Inferno. That attitude is worth far more than a few billion worth of ships end of the day - we saw stupidly rich FW veterans like Veshta or Muad'dib skulking around their stations packing their bags and running for the hills while the Fweddit guys in 1m isk dessies kept fighting.

I think this puts the fears of Moon-goo-funded inbalance into perspective really.

Doesn't matter how eve-rich you are if you've lost the will the fight, and if you have the will to fight then somebody on your side will give you a damn ship if you show you can use it.

Nothing much else needs to be said.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#412 - 2012-06-07 19:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Sokor Loro wrote:
And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.


Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#413 - 2012-06-07 19:41:57 UTC
chatgris wrote:

Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!

chatgris is just upset that Nexx passed him up on BC.
Sokor Loro
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#414 - 2012-06-07 19:57:09 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.


Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!


I suppose, but don't mention isk efficiency or battleclinic to our guys. Unless you want to troll them, then you'll probably get a huge rise out of them.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#415 - 2012-06-07 19:59:02 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:

Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!

chatgris is just upset that Nexx passed him up on BC.


I was tempted to add a statement saying "and stay away from Princess Nexxala. Don't trust him, never go near him, just log off if you see him in local :D"
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#416 - 2012-06-07 19:59:37 UTC
Sokor Loro wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.


Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!


I suppose, but don't mention isk efficiency or battleclinic to our guys. Unless you want to troll them, then you'll probably get a huge rise out of them.


Wouldn't you have great ISK efficiency running around in t1 fit thrashers? (Although terrible BC points I would assume).
Sokor Loro
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2012-06-07 20:08:23 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.


Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!


I suppose, but don't mention isk efficiency or battleclinic to our guys. Unless you want to troll them, then you'll probably get a huge rise out of them.


Wouldn't you have great ISK efficiency running around in t1 fit thrashers? (Although terrible BC points I would assume).


Most definitely. Our kb this week is at like 72% - even though we've lost nearly 500 frigates/destroyers. What I mean is, we consider efficiency and battleclinic awful metrics to go by, and don't care about them. If you were to talk about a battleclinic ranking in the flock's presence you'd probably be mocked relentlessly. One of our quasi-diplomats set someone red within the militia for bragging about killboard stats or something.

However, "thrashers" is somewhat of a currency of ours. If we were to say, kill an assault frigate, that's like 25 thrashers. hurricane- 50+ thrashers; as in, if we lost 15 thrashers and killed one assault frigate we have a :good feeling: - not neccessarily a "win" and not a "loss" if we didn't beat the odds. To us "win" = good fight, maybe taking a system, and "loss" = bad fight, or worse, no fight. It's sort of efficiency, but in our weird twisted views it's not :P
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#418 - 2012-06-07 20:17:57 UTC
Sokor Loro wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Sokor Loro wrote:
And even if it does, we'll probably switch to the Caldari :P

I'm sorry we're so much different than what you guys are used to. We're here to have fun, and we're having it.


Please do come to the caldari side - I would love to fight gangs of t1 fitted thrashers.

Why? Lets say I charge into 3 t1 fitted thrashers in my t2 fit thrasher and I kill one and then get blown up. I gain 20 points on BC and lose just under 7 BC points. You win the ISK war and your guy comes right back in another t1 fit thrasher, I get the net gain in BC points (my main motivation for pvping lately, the ISK isn't an issue for me) and we are both super happy.

It could be pvp utopia!


I suppose, but don't mention isk efficiency or battleclinic to our guys. Unless you want to troll them, then you'll probably get a huge rise out of them.


Wouldn't you have great ISK efficiency running around in t1 fit thrashers? (Although terrible BC points I would assume).


Most definitely. Our kb this week is at like 72% - even though we've lost nearly 500 frigates/destroyers. What I mean is, we consider efficiency and battleclinic awful metrics to go by, and don't care about them. If you were to talk about a battleclinic ranking in the flock's presence you'd probably be mocked relentlessly. One of our quasi-diplomats set someone red within the militia for bragging about killboard stats or something.

However, "thrashers" is somewhat of a currency of ours. If we were to say, kill an assault frigate, that's like 25 thrashers. hurricane- 50+ thrashers; as in, if we lost 15 thrashers and killed one assault frigate we have a :good feeling: - not neccessarily a "win" and not a "loss" if we didn't beat the odds. To us "win" = good fight, maybe taking a system, and "loss" = bad fight, or worse, no fight. It's sort of efficiency, but in our weird twisted views it's not :P



I like this mentality, people that care soly about KB stats rarely have "good fights". They just win. Just because you win didnt make it a good fight.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#419 - 2012-06-07 20:18:50 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not so in this one so destroying an enemy outright is ill advised. Its not complicated. You guys cant be this 'tarded?


Your militia said, quite recently, that they want nothing more than kick us all to high-sec and make sure we can never run any missions, make any isk and never again field any ships which could threathen them.

So what you are basicly saying that should us, by some miracle, achieve possibility to do the same, we should not do it?

And you say we are r.tarded?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#420 - 2012-06-07 20:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not so in this one so destroying an enemy outright is ill advised. Its not complicated. You guys cant be this 'tarded?


Your militia said, quite recently, that they want nothing more than kick us all to high-sec and make sure we can never run any missions, make any isk and never again field any ships which could threathen them.

So what you are basicly saying that should us, by some miracle, achieve possibility to do the same, we should not do it?

And you say we are r.tarded?


But damar, im not the militia. Ive never said that. I know you have trouble understanding that gallente is not a hive mind. Not everyone thinks the same way.

Oddly, im sure it was probably one guy that said that to you but you think of it as though the whole of gallente said it. I really hope you get hold of the reigns of your mind and fly back down to planet earth some day.